Colin James Sturdevant on igniting expression through poetry

We catch up with Colin on building Pass the Salt Presse. He shares on how  connecting over cake at Empire Cafe lead to starting a new life time project. His Montrose Grace Place poetry project shifted from academic-style workshops to paying unhoused LGBTQ youth to write, by focusing on practical ways to keep creating when you feel stuck.

• building Pass the Salt Press as a community-first literary nonprofit
• learning from an early workshop model that felt too academic
• paying youth poets and why small payments change everything
• publishing anthologies as resume builders and proof of work
• reducing barriers with freewrites, gentle edits, and “listening poet” drafting
• sustaining the work through gratitude, donations, and realistic print budgets
• why in-person tabling and storytelling sells more than social posts
• practical advice for beating writer’s block by building from past work and seeking live art

To find out more connect with him here: https://www.passthesaltpresse.org/

To the listeners...THANK YOU for sharing, liking and donating as you can!

Find out more about Kathi Crawford here

https://www.instagram.com/kathicrawford/

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Colin

Alexis Melvin 0:00

Hi, I'm Alexis.

Robin- Host 0:02

And this is Robin.

Alexis Melvin 0:03

And Colin. And this is 22 Sides. I have no idea what we're going to talk about today, but it sounds sort of interesting.

Robin- Host 0:12

Sounds really fun, actually. We're going to dance in the conversation with Colin.

Alexis-Co Host 0:15

Yeah.

Colin-Guest 0:16

Sounds good. I'm ready to dance. I'm ready to get down on that dance floor.

Robin- Host 0:19

Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. So, Colin, I left off with you, I mean, maybe a year ago over some coffee. Two years ago. Two years ago. Jeez, these years are like picking up after the pandemic. It went like slow, slow. Now it's going fast, fast, right?

Speaker 5 0:32

Oh yeah.

Building Pass The Salt Press

Robin- Host 0:33

So what have you been up to?

Speaker 5 0:34

Um, you know, just getting back in the swing of things post-pandemic. Yeah. Um, that reading series we met at is still going into its fifth year now. Uh-huh. Um, so we've got that going. Um uh the literary magazine that started that reading series now has a nonprofit over it.

Robin- Host 0:51

And what's the name of that?

Speaker 5 0:52

Uh Pass the Salt Press.

Robin- Host 0:54

Pass the Salt Press. Yep. Yeah. I remember meeting with you saying, like, you know, I get this food vibe, and then I get this poetry vibe, and then everyone meets up at these readings, and they're so happy. And they're bilingual and they're passionate, and that's a beautiful thing to see, especially in the Houston heats. Like some of these things are outside.

Speaker 5 1:15

Oh god, yeah. We were, I think that was spring or summer, and it was hot. I think it was standing room at some some point. And I yeah, luckily now we're indoors with an AC. Good. We've leveled up a bit.

Robin- Host 1:28

That's right. That's right. That AC is a level up in Houston. So, okay, so you got the press going on.

Speaker 5 1:34

Uh-huh. And uh uh I remember the the time that we met, or we didn't get to meet at the reading officially. Right. Uh, you reached out afterwards, and then we had uh coffee at Empire Cafe in the heart of Montrose.

Robin- Host 1:46

Yeah, I was like, you got it going on, but I don't know where you're going. Like I want to wrap my head around this because I like to get behind people in their projects.

Speaker 5 1:52

Right.

Robin- Host 1:53

And you're like, yeah, let's talk.

Speaker 5 1:54

Yeah, and it was a it was a a very nice day. It wasn't too hot. Uh we had coffee and cake.

Robin- Host 2:00

Yeah, Empire Cafe is super cool.

Speaker 5 2:02

Yeah, I that's a that's been an old old spot for me since high school. Uh me and my sister, we'd get out of high school on Fridays, go chat, smoke cigarettes, sadly. And then uh just like just talk.

Robin- Host 2:16

Yeah, if you're in Houston, go to Empire Cafe off of uh West Time Rare. We love it. They're they're so friendly. Good parking, too.

Speaker 2 2:22

Oh, yeah. And the food's pretty phenomenal.

Robin- Host 2:23

Yeah.

Speaker 2 2:24

Um yeah, and the other thing about it is I think there's still half-price cake on Mondays. Oh, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 2:30

Insider trade right there.

Speaker 2 2:32

Today is Monday, isn't it?

Speaker 1 2:34

Yes, it is. Yeah, it's always cake o'clock.

Speaker 5 2:41

Yeah, everywhere somewhere.

Alexis Melvin 2:43

Suddenly the podcast got shorter.

Speaker 5 2:45

Oh yeah, yeah. Uh this the chairs were swiveling, the kit the people were gone, the cake was eaten.

Speaker 1 2:51

Yeah, there you go. There you go.

Finding Montrose Grace Place

Speaker 5 2:54

Um, but so since that day, I know that you mentioned you told me about Montrus Grace Place, which I'd never heard of. Yeah. Um, I've been volunteering there for about three years for activities now. Wow. Um originally it flopped totally. I thought I would pay writers professional grade to lead workshops, and that did not work out.

Robin- Host 3:14

So I don't know everything about you, right? Like we have we have we've barely met, like we shared coffee, which is a great start. But the thing I know is that you have big dreams. Oh, yeah. Like you start off big and then you're like, okay, well, we'll just go from there. Yeah. You know, and so yeah, you Mondo's Grace Place is a place in Houston that helps people who are houseless and they uh sometimes bring in people who can offer a bit of education, whatever that is, whether it's like uh some tech skills, some poetry skills. I actually uh have taught yoga with them a few years when uh once they got started, and I I've seen them grow. So I don't know everything about them either, but you wanted to go to a place where they could use some really good volunteers. And you were like, cool, I'll set them up with a press, like from the top. Like you were like, we'll get this, we'll get them a press. Yeah.

Speaker 5 4:07

We will make them uh an editorial team and everything and pay them.

Robin- Host 4:12

It's fine.

Speaker 5 4:12

Don't worry. It's it was uh a very big dream, and I didn't realize all the steps it would take to get there for sure.

Alexis Melvin 4:19

Hey.

Speaker 5 4:20

Um but we're getting there.

Alexis Melvin 4:21

Isn't that the way most dreams work? Yeah, I think so. You start out and you're like, oh, I can do this in a week.

Speaker 5 4:26

Yeah, yeah. You have this aspiration, okay, we can get there. Oh, wait, there's a lot of summits.

Speaker 1 4:31

Sure, sure.

Robin- Host 4:32

Sure. So so what was that what was that like though? Because hey, to flop when you're trying to help or support or just bring a new tool to a demographic. Like, I don't I don't want to belittle them or you, like like I think when we were talking, it was just about how can we create more expression for where people are at.

Speaker 5 4:52

Definitely.

Robin- Host 4:52

And you were like, boom, I know, right? Like, yeah, I got that.

Speaker 5 4:57

I so what I what I envisioned was different because I'd never been to Montra's Grace Place. I'd never witnessed the youth or work with them build a rapport yet.

Robin- Host 5:06

It's a big awakening.

Speaker 5 5:07

It is, it is. And uh, some of the youth, like I've gotten over the year, they're they're like every time I come in, oh, it's the poetry guy. Yeah, and then some of the youth will come together.

Speaker 4 5:14

They remember. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 5 5:15

And then they'll come to the table. Some I've never met, and they're like, Oh, you pay us to write the poems, right? And I'm like, that is me.

Speaker 1 5:22

Yeah. Paid poets, what's that? That's new.

Speaker 5 5:26

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. It's it's modest, but it it is something, yeah.

Alexis Melvin 5:30

Hey, I mean, anything makes it professional.

Speaker 1 5:34

It that's true. That's true.

Alexis Melvin 5:36

You know that that's one of the things that we try to do with a lot of the stuff that we do is pay when we can.

unknown 5:41

Yeah.

Alexis Melvin 5:41

And and you know, and it's like that makes you a professional.

Robin- Host 5:44

And we being what?

Alexis Melvin 5:45

For those that are the Transgender Foundation of America.

Robin- Host 5:48

Yeah, the Transgender Foundation of America. So we we work with uh our own nonprofit, and and sometimes we work alongside Grace Place, but it has been a little while, you know, with the pandemic gotten away for a lot of us. So what's what's the update on on on how it's going or or you know, some trials and errors that you made, or like because I mean three years you could cover a lot of ground.

Speaker 5 6:08

Oh

Why The First Workshops Flopped

Speaker 5 6:09

yeah. Um I will say this from the s from the get-go. Um, we only had four sessions. I contracted people to to teach writing workshops, and I realized it seemed too academic. It seemed kind of like a stretch to the youth. It seemed like something that wasn't friendly.

Robin- Host 6:26

Okay.

Speaker 5 6:26

Um, especially if some of them or most of them have struggled in school.

Robin- Host 6:29

Yeah, it wasn't meeting where they were at.

Speaker 5 6:31

Exactly. It wasn't a good approach.

unknown 6:33

Okay.

Speaker 5 6:33

And then I realized, okay, well, one, I've just wasted this much money on paying contracting writers to lead workshops and it flopped. What can I do this time? So I'm like, I'm taking that money and I'm paying the youth to write poems and just guiding them, and that is it.

Robin- Host 6:47

Start with them. Start with them. That sounds like a really cool approach. That's beautiful. It is. That's so beautiful.

Speaker 5 6:53

Why would I pay people to volunteer to volunteer, first of all, to to work with the youth? And this money could go towards the youth who need it. Yeah. That's where it was important.

Alexis Melvin 7:02

Well, and the other thing is that it's a resume builder.

Speaker 5 7:05

Yeah. Definitely.

Alexis Melvin 7:07

Yeah, they have a job. It can go on your resume.

Speaker 5 7:11

And they get a f a copy of the publication. They can say my work is in this.

Speaker 4 7:16

Yeah.

Speaker 5 7:17

And uh they are so excited we're gonna the the second and third volume is gonna be combined to save on costs. Okay. Also, some of the current youth are aging out because they take youth up to in their early 20s. And some of our regulars are like, oh, I won't be here for that. I'll it'll be too late. Um, and so what we're doing is in August or September, we'll release the anthology number two and three, that's one one unit. Wow. And we're inviting some of those youth that have aged out to be special guest readers. Wow. Um, we're gonna get a huge custom cake with all three logos.

Robin- Host 7:50

It's always cake o'clock. Like uh and I'm gonna try and poor listeners like now I need cake.

Alexis Melvin 7:57

I was gonna say, we're with you on the cake thing. The poor listeners like we're talking about a party or an event or whatever, I'm like, I don't know what we're doing, but what's gonna be cake?

Speaker 5 8:04

It's gotta be cake. There's how else do you celebrate? Well, I mean I'm sure any way to celebrate's great.

Speaker 4 8:09

Yeah.

Speaker 5 8:10

Um, but yeah, it's it's definitely been a lot of uh curves learning, especially in the middle of it. Um I was underemployed. Um, I was holding out for a nonprofit job, and you know, with the whole political sphere and grants and everything going down the barrel or drain. Yeah. Um I didn't have any contracting work and it was too late in the game to be a teacher anymore.

Speaker 4 8:32

Yeah.

Speaker 5 8:33

So uh I still persevered. That first copy, that first anthology only had maybe about 15 poems, but we still did it. I think 20. But we did it.

Robin- Host 8:43

Yeah.

Speaker 5 8:44

The fact is that it got accomplished, no matter how many school absolutely. Yeah.

Robin- Host 8:49

Yeah. I literally am filled with goosebumps because we were sitting at this coffee table at Empire, and you had some pennies to pinch for yourself.

Speaker 4 9:00

Yeah.

Robin- Host 9:01

And the thing that was motivating you to make a day out of a day was to give back to someone else.

Speaker 5 9:08

Exactly. That's a good one.

Robin- Host 9:09

And you were like, Where can I do that? And you have found a way. And not only did you find a way, you found people who were also in similar situations, I bet. Right? Like a very related group of people. You weren't like trying to I l I love the people that have a passion to maybe want to be of service and get into a nonprofit, but but like you said, there's only so many of those jobs. And so here you are going and taking a service to a nonprofit and doing it on your way, you know, and you'll never know how those instructors that you paid they got to make rent because of that. You never you'll never know like what the kids took away from that, even though it was tough.

Speaker 4 9:58

True, true, yeah.

Robin- Host 9:59

Because even though it was tough, they don't have regular access to it anymore. Right. So it was a new day for them as well. And then now they've turned on towards creating like an actual item with you, like Alexa said, it is a resume builder, it's a place to point, it's that one time. Like people wait their whole life to to get their writing out, and you made that happen for them now before they timed out in their 20s.

Speaker 4 10:25

Yeah.

Robin- Host 10:25

You know, I mean, that's pretty brilliant. We've had some people on here, like Kathy Crawford and uh Wilma talking about Kathy was talking about how she wanted to write books, you know, and the and the the efforts that she's made, and she's a wonderful lady. People can listen to that episode. And then it inspired Wilma to come in, and I didn't know what we were gonna talk about because I know a lot of I know her from a few different hats. And Wilma said, Well, you know, I'm going to the moth, and so I'm gonna throw my hat in there to to read. I should I'm gonna practice on the on the podcast. So Alexis and I didn't know, but she brought her readings in and she got picked, so it's a good thing she practiced. But these are people who have lived big lives already and they're just getting to something that you offered this youth. Yeah, you know, so so stay open on the ripples that you're creating that you don't know about.

Speaker 5 11:15

That is true. I didn't look at it that way.

Robin- Host 11:17

Yeah, it's because you're in it.

Speaker 5 11:18

Yeah.

Robin- Host 11:19

Right. And uh I I saw some ripples when I taught as well, and I didn't know where they hit people, but uh then I started seeing the youth outside of those circles as they aged, as they grew, and they said, Oh, I remember you, you're the yoga teacher. You know, like you taught me how to breathe, you know. Like you taught me, you taught me when I was doing this, and and and and and and I'm I don't I got a job now and I'm doing this now, and and and I my I had goosebumps because I was like, I totally remember exactly who that person was. Yeah, you know, and I I saw them in a brighter light.

Speaker 5 11:50

Oh yeah, and you you see them grow over the years too.

Robin- Host 11:53

Because Montrose is like small, we're gonna need each other.

Speaker 5 11:55

Yeah. I I'll be walking like on in Montrose and they'll say, Hey, what's up? Yeah, but just on the blog. And that's the way it is.

Robin- Host 12:02

Just regular community now.

Speaker 5 12:04

Exactly. And I love it because like one of this, the youth that will be the special guest reader, um, they're now working where they live. And that is amazing to see them make that transition and to have that hope. Yeah. And to see where they were like three years ago, downtrodden, and like how much energy they carry. Well, it's amazing.

Alexis Melvin 12:20

The other thing is you're giving them a gift that's not something everyone can give, and that is you're giving them a gift of words. And you know, I presume you're critiquing what they say, but in a kind way. So you're just taking anything? What's the process?

Making Poetry More Accessible

Speaker 5 12:37

So the the process is I don't want to be a gatekeeper, I don't want to discourage them. Um what we do is it's free write. Um now, say if there's something sensitive in it, we'll ask them to probably word it differently so it doesn't trigger a reader. Right. Um uh but there are some that have they've gotten into writing regularly that they've built up their skills.

Speaker 4 12:58

Nice.

Speaker 5 12:59

Um, and this year what we hope to offer, I have a new intern. Um we're gonna create uh workshop lessons that are a bit more digestible. We're also gonna operate in a method that is listening poet style, where they can tell us an experience or things that they see in their mind and we draft a poem for them or the outline. Wow. Um I think that sometimes, you know, some of these uh youth might not be able to write.

Speaker 4 13:24

Right.

Speaker 5 13:24

How can we make that more approachable?

Alexis Melvin 13:26

And and that's what we're trying to get. Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at because that's where a lot of people fall down. It just, you know, they know it, they know what they want to say, but when it comes down to putting it down on paper or typing it into a computer, they just freeze up. Yeah.

Robin- Host 13:40

Alexis has met plenty of people along her way when she would teach in colleges and she'd teach through her scuba classes and things that just couldn't read and write, and they had found ways to get through. And then she started picking up on these cues of this and said, Does anyone want an extra class where we can kind of catch up a little bit? You know, and they're like, Oh yeah, I'll be there. And sometimes they just slip through for whatever reason.

Speaker 5 14:04

Yeah, yeah. It's it's the same experience as being a teacher. Not everybody learns or operates the same way.

Robin- Host 14:10

Yeah, at the same time.

Speaker 5 14:11

Yeah.

Robin- Host 14:11

So now you're a teacher.

Speaker 5 14:13

Yeah, well, I've been

Returning To School For An MFA

Speaker 5 14:14

in and out of it. Yeah. Um, I'm going back to it.

Robin- Host 14:16

Uh-huh.

Speaker 5 14:17

Um, I'm also in school full time, which is a crazy ride. It is a lot, but I love it. It keeps me going. Hey. But what are you going to school for? Um, I am do getting my master's in fine arts in poetry and creative writing. Nice. Um, and a low residency program based out of Colorado.

Alexis Melvin 14:34

Okay.

Speaker 5 14:35

So um I do that. It's a two-year program. It's full-time during the spring and summer. No, spring and fall. Or fall and spring, however you say it. Um and then part-time during the summer, so it's a quick process.

Robin- Host 14:46

Yeah, they own you here from you do that from afar? Because you're obviously in Houston.

Speaker 5 14:52

I do it remotely from home during the the most of the year. Then we have a 10-year, 10-day, sorry, I'm messing up. 10-day residency in the summer where we all meet up in Colorado. Oh, that's horrible. Oh no. The smell of the clear is just atrocious.

Alexis Melvin 15:08

Colorado during Houston summers.

Speaker 5 15:10

Oh yeah. It's hardship. It's terrible. That 50-degree night.

Robin- Host 15:15

Yeah. Yeah. Going from the swamp to like elevation. Oh no.

Speaker 5 15:19

Yeah. I will say my my sea level lungs are not used to that elevation. It's different at all. It's different.

Speaker 6 15:26

You have to acclimate. Yeah.

Speaker 5 15:28

Um, but I'm doing that because it's something I've always wanted to pursue since I was in my 20s. This whole nonprofit and these project, same time frame. I want to do this so long for 18 years and I'm finally doing it.

Robin- Host 15:39

Okay, so how old are you?

Speaker 5 15:41

I will be 39 in July.

Robin- Host 15:43

All right. And you went from wanting to work at nonprofits to creating nonprofits, basically. Yeah.

Alexis Melvin 15:50

Well, that's the easy way to work at one.

Speaker 5 15:52

Yeah, yeah. Make your own. Why not? You know. And it's it's interesting. Like um, I I think that a lot of nonprofits can be different because there is philanthropy, you know. Right. Um, but I I've worked for some nonprofits and I feel like sometimes uh how do I say this? Sometimes it's different inside the animal than what you see on the outside.

Robin- Host 16:16

Sure. Absolutely. Behind the curtains, totally different.

Speaker 5 16:19

Exactly. And I'm trying to make sure that this nonprofit is for the sake of the art and nothing more.

Robin- Host 16:24

Yeah.

Speaker 5 16:24

Nothing more.

Robin- Host 16:25

Wonderful. So you got that going. And I'm reminded of another episode where we talked to Jacob and he was creating spaces for people to be expressed, and we'll have to check in with how he's doing that and what's going on in his life. But that's a good episode people can check in with. And for you, one of the things that I remember asking him is like, how do you take care along the way? I know it's imperfect and and everything, but I can only imagine someone listening to this going, Wow, that is a lot. You know, like, and it is, but how do you like what gets you through? How do you maintain it?

Speaker 5 16:59

Um so I think it it's hard.

Robin- Host 17:03

Yeah.

Speaker 5 17:04

Not gonna lie.

Robin- Host 17:04

Yeah, it's you shouldn't. You shouldn't. It's uh you shouldn't be like, I woke up this way. Why can't you do this? People told me don't do it.

Speaker 5 17:11

And I said, Well, I'm gonna do what I want to do. I'm sorry. I'm stubborn to a degree.

Gratitude, Funding, And Print Costs

Robin- Host 17:15

Yeah, good for you.

Speaker 5 17:16

Um, and I think what really helps pull me through is when people uh show gratitude.

Robin- Host 17:21

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 17:21

That keeps the engine going.

Robin- Host 17:23

Nice, right?

Speaker 5 17:24

Nice, that keeps it going. Yeah, like when it's somebody that gets published in our literary magazine, like I uh we had a major contest for BIPOC writers, this current issue that's gonna come out. Uh-huh. Um, our winning poet is from Nigeria. Wow. And he never thought he would win a major award.

Speaker 1 17:39

Yeah.

Speaker 5 17:40

And uh he's every email, he's so thankful. And I've never felt such gratitude.

Speaker 4 17:47

Yeah.

Speaker 5 17:47

Uh somebody we published in the previous issue, Carolyn Wellman, she saw she saw on our website about the Unbroken Wheat Project, which is with the youth of Montrose Grace Place. And she said, How can I help?

Speaker 4 17:59

Yeah.

Speaker 5 18:00

And I'm thinking, uh, you know, just help spread the word, or if you can donate time or money, that's that's all that's what it takes. And I I kid you not, she said, I want to give you $500 for this project. And I was like, What? I was like, what? I'm gonna start crying. I've never known such kindness.

Robin- Host 18:18

Well, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Let me not interrupt, but yeah, keep going, keep going.

Speaker 5 18:22

And uh, and she's like, I love what you do, how you're doing it for those youth, and uh my parents would find this something great to help with. Yeah, absolutely.

Robin- Host 18:31

So and $500 for a nonprofit as much as some people might think that the bigger nonprofits are taken in buku books. Like $500 is a big deal.

Speaker 5 18:40

That's a lot, it's a big deal, especially when you can stretch it for your what you're doing.

Robin- Host 18:45

Yes, and uh about how much does it take to get a publication out these days? Because you said you are paying the artists.

Speaker 5 18:51

Yeah, so we spent about $500 on a total of 50 poems. Now, the previous issue that was a lot smaller, I didn't know the specs we were getting. Sure. Um, I didn't realize the lamination and all that cost extra.

Robin- Host 19:03

Trial and error.

Speaker 5 19:04

Uh yeah. So this issue that's gonna be about 60 to 70 pages total um will cost about a total of with shipping $500. Wonderful to get printed 100 copies and sent to Houston.

Robin- Host 19:17

100 copies. And so when you get them, what do you do with them?

Speaker 5 19:19

Uh we try and sell them.

Robin- Host 19:20

Yeah.

Speaker 5 19:21

Uh it's it's hard to market really.

Robin- Host 19:23

Sure.

Speaker 5 19:23

Um, but I've noticed that like no matter how much you try and market on social media or the internet, it's different when you you're out and you have a table set up and you tell people what you're doing.

Speaker 4 19:34

Yep.

Speaker 5 19:34

Because every time I tell neighbors or strangers this is what this is and this is what we're doing, they're like, How can I help? How can I buy that? Right. There's something about the the human-to-human contact. Yeah. Exactly. You've got to be face to face on stuff like that. Yeah. Because if you no matter how much you promote it, how many hits you get on Instagram, it's just a thing to like and passively scroll by. Yeah. I don't people think are really engaging with it. But when you when you talk to people and you express what this is, you tell them how it's impacting the youth, they say, How do I help? I want

Selling Books Through Human Connection

Speaker 5 20:05

to help.

Robin- Host 20:05

Right. And this is not just any youth, right? They identify as LGBTQ. Yeah.

Speaker 5 20:10

Um predominantly LGBTQ IA2S plus. Um and um uh mostly BIPOC now. Um, and uh it's it's I think I've heard from MGP that they get so many youth coming through that they have to have a a certain amount that they can only serve per night.

Robin- Host 20:29

Right.

Speaker 5 20:30

Like that's how much of a need there is.

Robin- Host 20:32

Yeah, so when we were coming out of the pandemic and we were in full rhetoric against this community, especially, then that means a lot more youth are gonna be unhoused. And that's something that our community has known for a long time, has supported as much as we can over the years in a lot of different ways. And we're glad that Montreux Grace Place is still open with the help of a lot of uh people and and partnerships with different orgs because it it doesn't it doesn't get uh smaller, like the the need gets bigger. And I personally I have always had a deep um upset with the situation because uh a lot of people don't know just how many kids are turned away, abused, let go. But at the same time, if they're gonna be not in a safe space, you don't want them to stay either, you know. And the number one thing that I think adults forget and kids don't understand is it's really hard for adults to access youth and help them for good reason sometimes. But if a kid's in need, we'll get requests. Uh personally, I get requests uh about every quarter of I I saw someone on the street, where do they go? Or I know someone in a hard way in a house and their parents don't understand, you know, because this hate bill came across, you know, where do they go now? And you have to help them ass assess the situation. So if someone's interested in resources, I would definitely check out Montrose Grace Place. And you know, we could possibly have them on here to interview because it's been a while since I've been updated on their services. But uh I you're bringing a space of expression and tools, and like you said, you're getting to build bridges with them. So do you do you foresee this uh keeping going?

Speaker 5 22:25

This is long term. Yeah. Until the day I die.

Robin- Host 22:28

So so Yeah.

Speaker 5 22:30

Um that's good.

Robin- Host 22:31

So yeah, it's like a forever thing now.

Speaker 5 22:33

Yeah, this is my favorite project. Um it's inspired another project.

Alexis Melvin 22:37

So what do you like about it? It's your favorite project.

Speaker 5 22:40

Okay, so when you sit down with the youth and they hear that they get to get paid and they get to write however they want, they light up. That's cool. It is it's a change like this. There's a switch.

Robin- Host 22:53

It's different than students, like, oh I have to do another assignment.

Speaker 5 22:56

It is, yeah. And when you see how much it empowers them, you don't want to take that away for it to end. You don't.

Robin- Host 23:03

Yeah.

Speaker 5 23:04

You want to keep it cultivated and keep it going.

Alexis Melvin 23:06

So what's necessary to handle more people? What do you mean by that? Um Grace Place, I think, is pretty much at their capacity.

Speaker 5 23:16

Yeah. Um, I know that is there a place called Tony's that's open during the day as well? Yes.

Speaker 1 23:21

Yeah.

Speaker 5 23:22

Okay. Well, I don't I know that Montraus Grace Place is the current place that we're we're processing what we do this project, how we do navigate this project. Um I know that it's always open. The floor is always open for youth that want to write. And we are trying to overcome more barriers because I'd love to see more youth participate.

Robin- Host 23:45

Like you said, you're gonna start workshops that are more digest digestible.

Speaker 5 23:48

Exactly.

Robin- Host 23:49

I'm sure the numbers wax and waned the difference between like summer and you know, in school times, and just by nature of the fact that they're like a little nomadic, you know.

Alexis Melvin 24:00

How many people, how many youth are participating now, for instance?

Speaker 5 24:04

So this year um has been the highest gain. It's been about 20 to 30 youth, different youth. The previous issue, maybe only six, no more than ten. Um, but they s the word spreads, and also if they don't hear about it, they'll ask what is going on, and when they find out about it, they're like, I want to do it.

Alexis Melvin 24:25

And so we're like, all right, just well, and the other thing is that they actually have a lot of experience. Oh yeah. Some good, some not good, but oh yeah, but it's experience that not everyone has. Exactly.

Robin- Host 24:39

And I think the regular average person out there might forget, like, these are not kids that can necessarily get in a car, hold a calendar, make sure to show up on Thursday because they want to go to this workshop. Like these are kids that have word of mouth, they do they may or may not have a consistent cell phone. They may or like they may or may not be able to get there, even if they want to come. Uh it's it's it's a lot. Things come up, injuries come up, um difficulties come up, and so you may start a process with somebody and then not see them on a second workshop.

Speaker 5 25:14

That's very true. It happens uh quite often. I know our first uh copy um it would be different youth each time. That's why the the numbers are a bit more uh uh I think smaller and quantitative because you you'd see different phases. But I think from what I've seen this past year, you see quite the same youth over and over again. Nice, but like um it's it's sometimes uh it's I I I don't I want to see it grow and I want to see it serve more youth. Sure. I just I don't know how that's gonna look like. It hasn't shown up yet, yeah.

Robin- Host 25:55

You know, and you're still doing the trial and error on how to get it out, so it'll it'll avail itself, you know, and and maybe it is through other orgs, or maybe it is just by getting the word out like this, you know. It it it depends. Like sometimes money is a helper, sometimes people are a helper, sometimes just getting the word out at a at a at a real time is a helper. Because let's say Montrose Grace Place meets at a certain time, and then you check in with the youth, and it's like that's that's only so accessible.

unknown 26:21

Yeah.

Robin- Host 26:22

Okay, well, so do we do another time? Do we do another location that's better? Like, you know, it might be just like doing a bit of a survey on um what are we missing on how to meet you?

Speaker 5 26:33

Right. Um, and I think some of the stipulations is that we've got to follow the volunteer protocol. Um so the MGP and the site that they use is where we have to be. Um, I don't want to infringe on on what they want. No way. Yeah, no way.

Robin- Host 26:48

Keep the trust.

Speaker 5 26:49

Exactly.

Alexis Melvin 26:50

Yeah. And they've spent a long time developing that. Exactly.

Robin- Host 26:56

For so good such a good reason.

Alexis Melvin 26:57

And exactly. And usually they don't change it unless there's a real reason. So you know, it's nice to have something that's a little bit evolved, shall we say?

Robin- Host 27:05

Yeah, when you're working with the youth, you have to have a good structure, you have to have background checks, you have to have a committed group of people that that regularly show up, and uh it used to be, and I don't know if this is the part you're participating in, but it used to be that they could come for a bit of uh respite in a space, they could get a meal, they could go through a sanitary closet, and then they could have like hangout time or education. Is that sort of the same

How Grace Place Supports Youth

Robin- Host 27:33

thing?

Speaker 5 27:33

The model is pretty much the same now. Okay. Um, it's um as soon as the doors open, relax, community, um, and then you can get uh social services or registered and other things like that. Um, and then they have the meal that they put on. And then after that is a break, about a 15-minute break, and then after that as the activity, um that's where we come in when we're there.

Robin- Host 27:57

So I knew a lot of people that said, I don't necessarily want to interact with the kids. I I don't have anything to share per se, but I can make a mean bowl of spaghetti. And so, or I could clean a kitchen, or I could clean the bathrooms afterwards, or like whatever to keep it going. And that uh food staff, if you will, the food volunteers are just as important as the education, if not more, because they're hungry, right?

Speaker 5 28:21

I think way more helpful.

Robin- Host 28:22

Yeah. And then the people taking them through the closets to to get some fresh clothes, some fresh sanitary napkins, things like this. Like they hear some real stories. They need they need some decompressing afterwards. That's not an everyone job. And then for myself, I was uh in an education uh component, like I said, as as far as yoga went, but it was really interesting, like what the adults thought the yoga would be and what the youth thought the yoga was gonna be, if at all. And so I actually did bring Kathy Crawford with me one time because she was a yoga instructor at the time. And I said, this is not gonna look like anything you think it's gonna be. And you know, and the the wonderful thing about Grace Place is that they don't push religion. They don't push you have to be a certain way to get this food.

Speaker 5 29:12

You don't, they don't push a judgment-free zone, and I love that.

Robin- Host 29:15

Yeah, it's a beautiful thing because there are some places that are like, well, you can get this food if you listen to whatever the sermon is or whatever the whatever is, and and and that's that's really tough on some people coming from the abuse our particular community goes through. They might have already been through a lot of trauma about that, you know. So they rather opt out of it. So on this publication, when it comes out, what's what's like the best way for listeners to access it or support the next

Where To Buy And Support

Robin- Host 29:44

run?

Speaker 5 29:44

Um, so we have a website where we have a shop.

Robin- Host 29:49

What is that?

Speaker 5 29:50

It's called uh pastthe saltpress.org.

Robin- Host 29:52

Pasthesaltpress.org.saltpress.org. We'll make sure to put it in the notes, yeah.

Speaker 5 29:58

Uh and um we have an online shop. Sometimes we do specials too. Um, and that's that's the best point. Good. And and then we'll announce pop-ups too, like where we'll go vend around town. Um I we are trying to get uh ISSN or ISBNs, uh so that way we can sell it at local bookstores here in Houston.

Robin- Host 30:19

Nice.

Speaker 5 30:19

Um so we can expand the market that way.

Robin- Host 30:22

Good, good, good.

Speaker 5 30:23

Um, and uh it's it's it's it's also a loose schedule for how we do this because it depends on what kind of money thing going on. Yeah, my schedule. Um so that's pretty much where where things go. Um but uh we have you know, I I don't know. And you can also email us through the website as well. That's that's your best bet.

Robin- Host 30:46

Sure. No, it's really wonderful. So if you're sitting there with a little brain idea, uh, you know, a little dream in your brain, if you will, uh, and you're like, how do I get this started? Like, don't let the barriers get there, like one chunk at a time, you know. And a lot of people forget that they they can find a way. And they it's good if they look at like what's already existing and who they can partner with so they don't have to do it all on their own. And it's good to hear stories like this, Colin, because like the truth is is a lot of people just happen to wake up in the morning, right? But to have something to pull you into your day in a way where you want to live, that's like a whole different existence. And I'm glad that it sounds like you found that for yourself, but you're also contributing to that opportunity of being there for the youth as well. Yeah, and the readers.

Alexis Melvin 31:40

You know, maybe we're just accessing more of it, but we're getting a whole lot more poetry than we've had before. And I mean that seriously. Oh, okay.

Speaker 4 31:51

Yeah.

Alexis Melvin 31:52

Um, we we have people who are doing poetry readings who've written poetry that have been on our podcast. What you're doing, I think, is great. I would love to see some of the stuff and you know, that sort of thing. Um and that seems a little bit new to me. I mean, I've been around more than a week, shall we say. So and and it's it's it's sort of nice to hear. Um the uh last couple of unity banquets that we did. You know, we had several people read poetry that was their their poetry, and it was very inspiring, and we enjoyed it and they enjoyed it, and I think the crowd enjoyed it. Yeah, you never know for absolute certain.

Speaker 5 32:36

Well no, uh one of our board members I think had attended Bonf or BANF. Is that part of the No. No?

Alexis Melvin 32:43

Okay. I don't think so.

Robin- Host 32:45

No, it's fine. We hold a unity banquet with the transgender the the Houston Transgender Unity Committee, and it had been going on for years, and we have it on pause right now. But I I do think there was a resurgence of poets getting new platforms where they they could actually be listened to and heard if you didn't know where open mics were.

Speaker 4 33:05

Oh no.

Robin- Host 33:05

And I think that poetry is something that is relatively accessible in funds. Like you don't have to get podcast equipment, you don't have to get art supplies, you can just riff and learn and it and and be expressed. And if you listen to any self-care uh influencer, they'll say journal, journal, journal. But like about what? Like, you know, like it's nice to it's nice to have prompts. Yeah, it's nice to have prompts, you know. But you're wearing uh writers in the school shirts, and I know that that was a group that grew it uh Houston-based, is it?

Speaker 5 33:43

Yeah, it's I believe it is Houston-based. They're they're here in the Montrose or the Midtown area.

Robin- Host 33:49

And I think Robin had a big part in it, right?

Speaker 5 33:51

Yeah, Robin uh rank Regler. Um current it was, and then after that, uh they've gone through some changes.

Robin- Host 33:59

Sure.

Speaker 5 34:00

Um, but it's one of the strongest uh nonprofits that are literary here in the city.

Robin- Host 34:04

And you've worked with them or alongside them along the way.

Speaker 5 34:06

I've gotten to teach at their summer camp back in 2023. Excellent experience for any writer that wants to teach writing.

Robin- Host 34:13

Nice in Houston.

Speaker 5 34:14

Yeah, because you have like a you'll get a a room full of campers where about 95-98% want to write. They want to write. Yeah, that's what they're there for. Yeah, exactly.

Robin- Host 34:25

They're not like this writing assignment again. They're like, bring it. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 34:30

And uh, and and man, I just remember that first summer that I did it. Uh, there's this one student that totally went with every suggested edit, and his final product was amazing. I said, Noah, I want you to know that was a stellar grand slam reading you just did with your work.

Robin- Host 34:50

Yeah, that's so awesome. And I happened to meet Robin as uh her barista, and we shared a name. So we kind of we kind of like, oh, you're Robin too, you know? And and she was a part of putting writers in the schools at Starbucks. And they used the Starbucks locations. This is like in 2009 or 10-ish. And you might have heard about this, Alexis, if you were a Starbucks goer, but if you weren't, you probably wouldn't have heard about it. But Montrose and Hawthorne in the Tros, you know, uh had regular open mic poetry nights for the writers to come in and share their pieces, just like in the lobby. Like, and that's not far-fetched. Uh coffee shops were the beatnik spaces.

Alexis Melvin 35:36

I was gonna say that that was the classic coffee shop.

Robin- Host 35:38

Yeah, yeah. But Robin was making it happen with the the managers of different locations, and I think she got some of the quotes on the on the Starbucks cups, I don't, or the bookmarks we were given out at the store or something. So there was a little bit of like a takeaway. Even if you weren't at the night, you could kind of learn about writers in the schools and and that I I that was a great partnership because these locations do need to bring people in, and then the people who were there could use the location as a stage, as a platform. So and I will tell you that uh just hearing about people thinking of the notion they were lit up, like, oh, that's cool that people are doing that, like helping the youth or or in a way that's expressed, you know, or or oh, I wish I would have had that. That's cool. I want to support that, even if they never went to the night. And talking to people early in the morning before their coffee is really hard to get them excited. You know, so that's so that's trying to wake up and get a lot of things. It's not an easy thing to do for the readings with us or something. So yeah, we when Alexis and I first started this podcast, we wanted to talk about all different topics. And I can only imagine some of the listeners. Yeah, we'll have to bring Melalani back and uh anybody who wants to get in on that.

Alexis Melvin 36:50

Mel?

Robin- Host 36:50

Yeah, no way. Yeah, we had we had Melalani on for one of uh our podcast episodes.

Alexis Melvin 36:55

Nice.

Robin- Host 36:56

Yeah.

Alexis Melvin 36:57

We're we're good friends.

Robin- Host 36:58

Yeah, like great.

Alexis Melvin 37:00

But I have a question before we close, but think you're thinking you're closing.

Speaker 1 37:04

Okay.

Alexis Melvin 37:04

Yeah, Robin always tries to cut me off before I get my real questions in.

Speaker 1 37:08

Right. Alexis, what's your real

Starting To Write When You’re Stuck

Speaker 1 37:10

question?

Alexis Melvin 37:10

My real question is, and you know, you've seen a lot of writers, you're a writer, you do all that. How does how do you get someone or how does someone get from the oh, I have all these ideas, but now I really need to start putting them down on paper or someplace where they'll keep going? Because, you know, that's that's a real barrier. Yeah. Um and it's a psychological one, I think.

Speaker 5 37:32

It is very much psychological. Don't let people tell you don't do it. Don't let people's other shortcomings or failures tell you you shouldn't do it. If you want to do something, do it. You've got this one life, gamble with it.

Robin- Host 37:44

Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, is there also that's great. And then is there also something where, you know, I don't know, I don't know if it would be exactly like writer's block, but maybe it's like, like, how do I get started? Like, I'm just in this big barrier of I I imagine you go through this because artists of any kind have a huge mountain of something they want to come through this sort of hourglass tunnel. Like, how do you how do you get through the tunnel to have it like hourglass out?

Speaker 5 38:16

So here's here's what my uh one of my professors at my current program told me because I asked her, I was like, so when we graduate and we don't have a group anymore, how do we keep writing? She said, look in an aspect of your art that you've already produced. Take some of that and build more. So if you're having writer's block, so say if you have you're writing poetry, you have your full poem, you see a very small molecular part that inspires something new, that's how you keep going.

Speaker 4 38:47

Yeah.

Speaker 5 38:47

Yeah. Or what I've also witnessed or realized myself is if I go hear other people read, or I read more, or I see other uh avenues of art or works of art, it inspires me.

Robin- Host 39:00

I could definitely echo that. I went to one of Kathy's readings after she came to the podcast, and I've been to some open mics and I've been to some drag shows and I've been to karaoke's and you know, I've seen different art. And I was over in the Winter Street Studios open mic over there, and three readers, man. Like, I I I mean, that's like a total of what, not even 15 minutes, and the topics, the range was bonkers. Like, one person did a love poem of her grappling with uh substance abuse, like the love and the the roughness of it. One person did a letter to her parents that were in the Japanese concentration camps, and one person did uh a poem to uh uh grieve through the loss of their dog. And I was just like, wow. We've covered a lot. This is like like I know Netflix is dumbing us down, but like that was real, you know, and we weren't even at intermission, you know, and and the beautiful thing was is if they couldn't make it through the poem because um they got choked up or they were shy, these are people who are reading it, right? Not just writing it, but reading it, uh, the audience just clapped, you know, and and and they were all different diversities and ages and sexualities, and they just they really were like the vibe was so welcoming, like it it wasn't intense, you know. Um so I I I think you're right because when I heard those different subjects all at once, I'm somebody that doesn't put myself in a place where, you know, I can take my emotions sideways. Like I don't like performance art that tries to evoke some sort of weird triggered reaction out of you. So I will walk out. But but this was loving. This was like, oh great, I'm so happy we can all finally talk about this stuff that number one, the world could, would, should be talking about. And number two, that we might go through.

Speaker 6 41:06

Oh yeah.

Robin- Host 41:07

So it it was like it was healing in that sense, honestly. Oh yeah. And therefore, like motivating. Yeah, it was motivating. I could see how people could be like, cool, I could finally write my stuff now, because it's gonna be like the topic's gonna be in the middle of there somewhere, you know.

Speaker 5 41:22

Yeah. Well, I know um, like this is just a tidbit. Um creative writing, when it became a part of academia, it was after uh the war. Either I think it came about after the Vietnam War. Um, like yeah, writers like Tim O'Brien, Bartholomew May, and a few others uh that had started um programs here in Texas. And art, whether it's poetry or prose, it's always been a foundation for um self-healing and therapy. People don't like to say that, but um I think it is.

Robin- Host 41:56

Well, and I also think that some people who grapple with learning uh differences like dyslexia or something, it's like uh it is hard to get past some of the language barriers. But one of the things that I've seen with Jadeen's work and Stelina in Houston is they can freeform bilingually and they can take up space on a page, uh not in your regular left-to-right text font, but like all around the page. And we had a person who lived in Houston for a minute, Chingy, who was uh teaching at I believe Sam Houston to create different ways that writers presented their language on page, which is probably an obstacle in how you print it, but it's getting a little bit better, I bet, you know, like in accessibility to that. So so I think that whatever it is that you're you're you're hesitant on, just it might be worth looking newly in how poetry has like transformed a little bit or evolved a little bit.

Speaker 5 43:03

Yeah, it's becoming more inclusive, definitely, I think, because we have these new techniques coming in. Uh we have a better understanding of identity now, especially identity poetics too. Um it's broadening, or it's been it's not maybe it's all I think it's always always been there, but it's it's having language that's more accessible now. Yeah.

Robin- Host 43:25

Um what would you say to somebody who's like lived a big life, like many, many hats, and has even bigger dreams, and people are just all over them to write their life story and they don't know where to start.

Speaker 5 43:44

Um I think if you've worn a lot of hats and you struggle to get your dreams going, I think this is this is gonna be kind of nerdy. I'm not big on comics, but I do love a good Batman comic.

Robin- Host 43:57

Um I think that's what Jacob said too. Oh really? Yeah, comics, yeah, poets and comics. Yeah.

Alexis Melvin 44:04

I was gonna say there's nothing wrong with Batman comics.

Robin- Host 44:06

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 44:07

Here, here we go. As uh as Bruce Wayne's um mentor and caretaker Alfred said, Why do we fall down to get back up? That's all I can say.

Robin- Host 44:20

Hey, all right. I love it. I love it, I love it. Well, what do what are you thinking? What are you taking away from this?

Alexis Melvin 44:28

Oh, I'm just enjoying the conversation.

Robin- Host 44:30

Yeah. Yeah. That's a beautiful thing, right? We have a lot going on in the world, and we can still show up to this table, and listeners can click play and be in the conversation with us to just take a respite. Like the world is shifting in many different ways all day long. And you still have tools that you can use at the ready, whether it's a pen or pencil or a computer or your own uh listening memos. You know, I I personally struggle with writing things myself. I rather do audio, which is why I'm inclined to do podcasts, right? Uh and even then I struggle. But like, let's just keep going. Because, like you said, it's your one life now, and we're not going to get back tomorrow. We have today, you know?

Speaker 5 45:14

Exactly.

Closing Thoughts And Thanks

Robin- Host 45:15

So I want to close with thanking the listener and sharing, liking, subscribing. I know everyone says that, but the truth is, is the donations go a long way to keeping this up. So thank you for donating towards the podcast and towards the projects of the episode guests that we bring on here. It it it they're enlightened by it. They're like excited by it. They're they're thankful that other people see their vision and want to support it. And I just want to say that thank you for taking care as a listener, because that is the most important thing. You know, we we find people that are like, ooh, I went down one episode or ooh, I went down all the episodes, you know, and it's just like it's cool. Like take us on a walk, take us in your car, you know, like shut the world out for a minute and just get into some real real life uh people chats where some good things are happening. And remember that we're more complex than just our little sound bites. You know, we have a lot going on, and that's okay. You're not alone.

Alexis Melvin 46:16

And don't be surprised if the episodes cover things that you didn't expect.

Robin- Host 46:19

Yeah.

Alexis Melvin 46:20

Because some of them do.

Robin- Host 46:21

That's how real conversations are.

Alexis Melvin 46:23

And and you know, we just sort of go with wherever the person is.

Robin- Host 46:27

Yeah, absolutely. So thank you for taking care and thank you for listening. Bye. Bye.