22 Sides
22 Sides is a podcast that will let you get to know some fascinating people and keep up with many things that are happening in and around the Houston area.
22 Sides
From HR Executive to Poet: A Journey with Kathi Crawford
Have you ever wondered what might happen if you followed your creative impulses, even later in life? In this episode, we sit down with Kathi Crawford, a former HR executive who reinvented herself as a career coach and eventually discovered her voice as a poet and writer.
Kathi's story begins in blue-collar Northeast Ohio, where she grew up as the only girl among four brothers. From early on, she knew she wanted a non-traditional path. After years of climbing the corporate ladder to become VP of Human Resources, she reached a pivotal moment: "Is this it? I don't like these people." This realization sparked her journey toward entrepreneurship, launching her coaching business People Possibilities in 2008.
What makes Kathi's journey fascinating is how she continued evolving well after establishing her successful coaching practice. She discovered poetry as a creative outlet and a way to process her experiences differently. "Poetry is like a puzzle," she explains, offering her a way to "tap into my life story that I couldn't do otherwise." Through organizations like Women in the Visual and Literary Arts (WIVLA), she found community with fellow creatives and developed her craft.
The conversation explores the balance between business ownership and creative pursuits, the challenges of putting yourself out there, and the joy of finding new forms of self-expression at any age. Kathi's forthcoming poetry collection, "Consider the Light," represents years of dedication to her craft and the patience required in the publishing process.
Whether you're contemplating a career change, exploring a creative hobby, or simply curious about how others navigate the different chapters of life, Kathi's story offers inspiration for finding your own voice and connecting with what truly matters to you.
Join us for this enlightening conversation about reinvention, creative expression, and the courage to follow your instincts toward a more fulfilling life.
https://theworldinsideyou.com/about/
Check out her book here:
Writers spaces:
https://www.archwaygallery.com/
Bookstores:
https://www.brazosbookstore.com/
Also check out Kris Winter a Poet and first Sponsor of 22Sides! Thank you!
https://kwinterslatinxpoet.substack.com/
We hope you will listen often.
For more information, visit our website 22sides.com
The technology is so much improved.
Alexis:Okay, fair warning, we're recording. And if you would, what else do you need me to do? Sort of sit wherever you're going to sit, pull up a little closer to the mic.
Robin:Like, pick your alignment that you think you'll keep, because if you go back and forth like this on the mic it'll sound weird.
Alexis:And I need her to talk and you not to.
Kathi:Okay, am I close enough? Yeah, it might hit me if I get closer.
Alexis:I know well you can actually take the pop screen, move it in a little bit if you want this one, you can bend it yeah, just move it toward the mic, yeah like that. Oh, that would be nice, yeah, and I think yeah I'm gonna move the mic down a little bit for you, okay this is like good practice though, yeah, and you can be further away.
Robin:We just don't want you to move back and forth, back and forth. So pick, pick. Wherever you're gonna, kind of I don't know, I'll try. Just pick a comfortable position. It doesn't have to be closed like this, that you don't have to do that okay, and the farther away you are, the more background echo we'll get.
Alexis:But that's okay we can fix it because, yeah, we basically aren't trying to make perfect sound we can't do that but we're trying to make it more of a conversation.
Kathi:I'm already way impressed. This is amazing.
Robin:Here, put these on.
Alexis:You don't have to put those on.
Robin:Yes, you can hear it. Oh, what does it do?
Alexis:Listen, that's just us.
Robin:So you can hear it.
Alexis:So you can hear everything.
Kathi:I love it it sounds like a studio exactly.
Alexis:Okay, yeah and we can. We can adjust lots of things on that, by the way okay but nonetheless this is really great.
Kathi:Yeah, good job y'all yeah, so we want to.
Robin:We want to have a good recording uh track for you for whatever you want to use in the next part of your life so I'm going to insist that one of us do the opening.
Alexis:are you going to do the opening this time? Yes, okay, good. We frequently forget to do the opening until about halfway through.
Robin:It's hard and then you have to like move. That part's hard to edit, yeah.
Alexis:Well, I'll just leave it there. People can wait for it.
Kathi:Oh, sure, there you go yeah.
Robin:Welcome to 22 Sides. This is Robin Mack, and today we are here with Alexis Melvin and a new guest, Kathy Crawford.
Kathi:Hello everyone. Yeah, thank you for being here, Kathy Tell me about Kathy.
Robin:Oh boy.
Speaker 4:that's a big question. Put her in the hot seat we have 14 hours, if you want Okay.
Kathi:Well, where would you like me to begin? Well, where would you like me to begin?
Robin:Well, I was wondering, you know, if you were just having a bullet point takeaway of the things you're proud of in life, like what pops up for you?
Kathi:Okay, Well, when I was younger, I grew up in Northeast Ohio, and I am one of five children. I have four brothers, one remaining actually, but regardless. So I'm an only girl growing up in a family of boys.
Robin:Excellent, so that was part of my life, yeah.
Kathi:And growing up, my dad. He worked at the steel mill, so he was in blue collar. My mother was an administrative assistant, Actually after she had the first four of us and we were all sort of a year apart from each other. And then my youngest brother was eight years younger than me. Younger than me, but after, or I guess it was when I went to kindergarten. Maybe is when she went to work and there's a big argument that they had my parents which stimulated that. But I do think that my mother enjoyed her career. She worked in an office setting.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Kathi:And she worked at the school while I was in school, so she was like right down the hallway from me and was that good or bad in your mind?
Alexis:you know um I was too young to really care yeah, at that point?
Kathi:yeah, good question, but yeah I don't know it would seem like she was ahead of me, though, like when I was in elementary school she was there, but then, when I went to junior high, she was at the high school, and when I was in elementary school, she was there, but then, when I went to junior high, she was at the high school, and when I went to high school she went to Kent State.
Robin:So that was good, because you know, she kept moving away Some distance.
Kathi:But anyway, I graduated in 1979 from high school and I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life, but I knew that I didn't want to follow a traditional path. Um, and I I didn't know what that meant exactly that I, but I, just I didn't want to get married, I didn't want to have children. Um, there weren't a lot of opportunities at the time for women other than office work. I took two years of intensive office education in high school so I could type and take shorthand. I was top of my class.
Robin:Very important yes.
Kathi:And I couldn't find a job. I worked three jobs I worked in fast food, I worked at the career center for Kent State, I was taking classes and I worked at a bank. That's a lot. So yeah, I was.
Robin:I was very busy, so you're no stranger to keeping long hours.
Alexis:No, so what do you do?
Kathi:now. Well, now I have my own business. Um, I my career ended up in human resources and I kind of moved up to a VP of HR role and, uh, when I got there, I was like, okay, is this it? I don't like these people. I don't know, I mean, I don't like what they're doing.
Alexis:That's a perfect thing for HR.
Kathi:Things are always changing, you know Well you know, actually I wanted to really empower people, I wanted to be able to make a difference for people.
Alexis:Oh, you shouldn't be in HR then I know right?
Kathi:No, Well, what I found was it was who I was working for Of course, so you have to be in the right environment really to be able to exercise what your beliefs are, I guess, and how you feel about people and how you want to, for me, empower them and give them opportunities. So I went through some coaching and I ended up deciding that I wanted to be a coach and work more on the learning and development side leadership development.
Kathi:So I quit my job and I started my business. It's called people possibilities, and that was 2008 and um I pursued my certification in coaching.
Alexis:I was working at university of houston when you say coaching, what are we talking about?
Kathi:yeah, um, it's a good question, because everybody's a coach, right coaching. What are we talking about?
Robin:yeah, um it's a good question, because everybody's a coach, right?
Alexis:it's kind of a broad field, it's very broad, you can't, you can't hear on the podcast, but I'm nodding. Yes, yeah, yeah, it's very broad um.
Kathi:For me, it was, or has, really centered around career coaching, so helping people figure out what um they'd really like to do and then leveraging their skills in that direction. So it's a little bit different than maybe you know I want X job, so let's go get it. It's really about, you know, making a transformation or a change or a shift in one's life. And then I also do that with leaders in organizations. I help them a lot of times with their teams and building relationships with their team, uh, in a way that they can empower them to grow in their careers, because you know, as a leader, you're only ever as good as the people that that you surround yourself with and how you help them, um, do what they want to do and bring their gifts, you know, forward and, and you know, achieve that.
Robin:So that's really kind of the area that I focused on, yeah, and 2008 was not an easy year to start something, so, especially in Houston, we have. We had. We didn't have quite the dips, as most people in economy, but when you became your own boss, how did you feel about your new boss? Like, did you, did, you did. You feel like you were getting the, the values and the support that you wanted, where you could thrive now that you weren't under other people's missions and restraints.
Kathi:That's a good question um, because, yeah, being your own. So what does that entail? We're not always all good about that. I saw a lot of people in in 2008,.
Robin:I saw a lot of people get laid off, unfortunately and they thought well, I'll just be my own business owner, you know, and and what they did was is they started with their vacation first, because they hadn't had a vacation, they were working really hard, and then they got that good set of PJs, you know, and then they just sort of never got up from there and then they ended up ultimately going back to work for somebody that they resented. But my whole thought process was well, you, if you're your own boss, you would resent yourself if you didn't have the structure, if you didn't have the structure, if you didn't have the whole setup that it takes to actually employ people. But I think that's missing under a lot of people's minds and I know you're a high structure person that has supported lots of different types of businesses. But did you find that that was a thriving environment for you?
Kathi:Did you find that that was a thriving environment for you? I think it's a combination of experiences that I had had in my life up till then. Early on in my career, as you've already heard, I had multiple jobs. I had to put myself through college. When I decided that's actually what I wanted to do, I went back to college. I didn't graduate, so from the time of high school graduation to college was 10 years, so I had to get really creative about how to fund that. At first my mother was still at Kent and I could go for free, but it turns out when I returned to Ohio to do that, I was turning 25 and they decided the policy was going to change and you could no longer do that if your, your child, was 25 or older.
Kathi:Okay, so then I had to fund through grants at the time and I had to work and go to school, so I had no life for three years. Doing that, it's all worth it. I always felt like I needed to have that little piece of paper in my pocket. I didn't know why, but I found in the workplace that even though I was doing the work of people that had degrees, I wasn't getting the credit for it. So I just decided that I didn't have any children, I wasn't married and you know I could do it.
Kathi:So I did that and, long story short, I got into consulting. After that I lived out of my you know bag of doing a lot of traveling and that kind of thing. So I've always been someone who's had to direct her life in a way and I'm actually not very structured- I'm very creative, let me not mislabel you.
Robin:Well, we've talked about this.
Kathi:An assessment that I use in understanding behaviors is called the Berkman Method.
Robin:Absolutely.
Kathi:And what I love about it is it also looks at what we need from our environment to exercise our strengths essentially, and what our strengths are is what people see. So you see someone who appears to be very structured, but my need is to actually have um freedom to be unstructured, wow, okay.
Robin:Okay, it's good to know that about yourself.
Kathi:It is really um eyeopening. Yeah, because you know um I want to be seen as structured. I do a lot of work around that to be ready for whatever's coming, whatever ready looks like.
Robin:Yeah, yeah.
Kathi:But at the same time, um, I'm really sort of kind of going with the wave Um, I, I also um, not only help others find the right opportunities, but I like that in my own life. Others find the right opportunities, but I like that in my own life. So it's always sort of figuring out how are you going to make things work, given whatever circumstances you find yourself in. And so when I quit, you know the structure of a work environment?
Kathi:yeah, where you know a work environment, yeah, where you know my calls are coming in and I have a to-do list and you know there's a demand for the HR vice president to get involved in things Right. Um, now it's like I've got to go find my own sort of opportunities and ways in which I can contribute. I had an opportunity with the University of Houston. I was on a team to create their leadership development program for their continuing education group. So we delivered leadership development for people in the community so they don't have a continuing education department any longer. They moved all of those programs into the colleges, which is fine. But I did that, for I helped design the program, I delivered the program and I did that for about eight years while I was building up my coaching business and so on, so I didn't want to really do human resources.
Alexis:Do you have people that work for you in your current business? I do not. I do not, and that was a choice.
Kathi:Yeah, and I think you were saying that Robin is like you might have people that you have to manage and all of that in your business. That's a choice you can make. Did I want to build a consulting business? Right, and then I'm right back where I was administrating a business, a function, you know, or what have you which is what I was doing in corporate. I wanted to actually be hands-on, I mean I did consulting for like 40-something years. Okay, yeah.
Alexis:And I did not have anyone working for me, because that's why I left the corporate world. Uh-huh, you know, it was like no, that's not what I want to do. I want to do the consulting.
Kathi:Oh yeah.
Alexis:And you know, and if I need to bring people in, I had people I could bring in, but but it was, you know, pure contract consulting type stuff.
Kathi:Oh, excellent. Yeah, so you know the life and I, I did a little experiment at some point I think it was like 2011, 2012 of did I want to have people work for me and I had started doing consulting on HR and OD organizational development with small to mid-sized companies, so I found a niche where they really wanted my skills right and they really did care about their people.
Alexis:So that's where I was looking at it. I sort of started out doing small to mid-sized companies and then I figured out that if they needed my skills because I did general management consulting, they actually couldn't pay me because they didn't have the money. Yeah right and I'm like, okay, I've got to go to bigger companies now.
Kathi:Well, I learned how to structure the agreements to get paid first, what year was that for you? Learn how to structure the agreements to get paid first.
Robin:Yeah, because, yeah. What year was that for you? Hmm, what year was that for you?
Alexis:Oh gosh, when I decided, when I figured that out, mm-hmm Late 70s.
Robin:Yeah, oh, okay, okay, sure, very different time and place, right Well?
Alexis:and so you know, basically what I started doing was most of my work with Fortune 10 companies and governments. Oh, okay, Because they all have money.
Kathi:Yeah, yeah, there you go, you can find that. Yeah, yeah, it's trial and error.
Alexis:You know it's hard to get in to see them the people you need to because I always worked with either the CEO or whoever was running the company. Yes, and they're hard to get in to see, but you can work around that.
Kathi:Absolutely yeah, yeah and uh, I had to learn all those lessons too.
Kathi:And so the year that I was saying, oh, do I want to grow it into a? Uh, more people. And managing that, I had a couple of projects that I used other people to do the work and experiment as an experiment and I at the end of that year, that year I earned as much as I would have if I had done the work myself. Wow. And yet there were all those headaches of getting the work done the way that I would do it in a certain time frame.
Robin:It seems like it didn't free you up much either. Not really.
Alexis:And some people just like to manage people Exactly, and that's fine.
Kathi:I do, and I've always loved my teams.
Alexis:I was going to say I like developing people, not managing them.
Kathi:I like developing people as well, and I get that from my coaching in that sense well, and I get that from my coaching in the sense, in that sense, and that's where I want to use that skill, versus in a management structure. So, yeah, I figured out that that really wasn't what I wanted.
Robin:Is it more for you that you like to mentor and see success, versus what some people would consider management being like micromanaging and, you know, having to pull a strength out of somebody that's not there? I mean, was that the difference?
Kathi:I think I think it goes back to what I learned in in the Berkman is that we have these interests Each of us has. Okay. Look, we are human beings. We are capable of so many things. I mean, even though I don't really enjoy mechanical type assignments or tasks, I can do them. But if I have a list of things that I can choose to do, where I gravitate is more towards the people side, and I have high literary interests, which is maybe why I wrote a book. I don't know, but uh, you know.
Robin:and I read a lot Like that was actually foreseeable in your Berkman, Kathy. It was in my Berkman all the time.
Kathi:So, so you know it's so it was like um, I want to, I want to help people understand that for themselves too. Is that, you know? I think sometimes management can be. Why can't you do this thing?
Kathi:I just want you to do this thing Well there might be a lot of reasons why somebody's not doing something and I want to know what really makes them tick and makes them happy and they can thrive in. And if they have to do the report by midnight, what would be the best way to support them in achieving that without the hammer?
Alexis:Yeah, a power force, and sometimes having a field or an area that you're very good at can be a curse.
Kathi:Yeah.
Alexis:I mean seriously. It's like if you don't like to do it or if you're burned out because you've done it so much, um, you know, it's like no, I do not want to do that. I'm doing this over here yeah, we all.
Kathi:We all perform better with choice, yeah.
Alexis:Yeah, when you have to do something, you have to do something then, it doesn't feel the same well, and I found that, um, when I was doing consulting and those sorts of things, that the bad part was that they have to do. It was me telling me I have to do it, which can really get to be interesting sometimes having the argument with yourself.
Kathi:Yeah, that's for sure, oh. I have all kinds of ways to get myself to do the things that I don't like to do. That's good. I did too.
Speaker 4:I had this whole series of things.
Alexis:And every now and then it'd be like, okay, I just ran out of, okay, I just need to do it, right, right, check it up and do it, you know.
Kathi:Well, you know, early in my life also a game changer was a time management class.
Robin:I don't remember when it was. It was in the 80s.
Kathi:Yeah, yeah, who was it? Franklin Covey, I don't know. It was something and it really literally changed my life. I hadn't really thought about time and focus in the same way before that. I was definitely a doer, I could get things done Very task focused like that, but it wasn't with any sort of mission or purpose behind it. So that time management class really, um, really helped open my eyes to okay yeah.
Kathi:And I think, I think it was around the time of deciding to go back to college and, you know, it was something that really helped me.
Robin:Now I see I'm a massage therapist and so I'll see people that work from home or have a bunch of jobs just a mixed variety of people. But when they are their own boss we have a laugh because they'll say well, I'm more stressed than I was working at the main job and why am I overbooking and why don't I have free time?
Robin:And I said, oh, did you fire yourself? Because a lot of times when I'm my own business owner, I have to say who scheduled this? Oh self, you're fired. And it's comical because there's laughter relatedness. But if you're not scheduling in all the things that you need to and you can get really tunnel focused. But are you scheduling in that self-care? Are you scheduling in the, the admin time? Are you scheduling in it's a lot, it's it's. You know it's not clocking in and out and then just Netflixing. You know like you have to broaden your horizons on the things that you need to meet.
Kathi:But that's what.
Alexis:I laugh about it's so true, you're fired yeah. The thing I found was that I never took vacation.
Speaker 4:Oh, okay, yeah.
Alexis:Because, you know, if I didn't have clients that I was actually working with, I was trying to find them, because you have no money coming in there was no time for vacation anyways. Yeah, because you have no money coming in you have to keep working and you know it was fine, but that's not okay. You know what I mean okay, you know.
Kathi:I mean, it was like, this is the nervousness time. I do think that that's why you asked this earlier, but why people, um, they start a business and they want to do the thing that they started the business for whether it's human resources or general management, or you know what you name it. They want to do that thing, yeah, but oh, you have to sell your own business, you have to build relationships you have to always be selling.
Speaker 4:You have to sell your own business. You have to build relationships. You have to always be selling you have to do marketing. You've got to figure out a way to get to your customers.
Kathi:You have to basically support them yes, you're doing all of that, yeah, and there are ways that you can delegate, you can hire people that do certain things, et cetera, but you have to manage a budget.
Robin:That can manage that, yeah, yeah that does that?
Alexis:And you have to show up because clients don't want to never talk to the person that they're really hiring.
Kathi:Right, exactly, and if you are growing that business In fact I'm working with somebody right now and that's what they're looking at is, you know, he wants to grow the business but he doesn't want to be in it every day, and so, but I've worked with many people that have successfully figured that out and then figured out a way to slowly move away from the day to day and decide what kind of presence they do need to have and interaction with the customer et cetera. So yeah, and it's a challenge.
Kathi:It's a process, not an event sort of thing. And it's also this constant self-exploration about like why am I doing this?
Alexis:Yeah, and most entrepreneurs want immediate success or immediate gratification on what they're doing.
Robin:Or they just don't have the strength in it. So when I was graduating my massage class in 07, about 82% of people who went to school were never going to sit for the license and I felt like that was a bizarre number. And when I asked the faculty well, what gives? I said, well, they might have just come to learn the modality for their life. But what usually happens is once you get some skills, you realize, oh, now I'm going to have to sell myself and, you know, grow a private practice.
Robin:Or at the time there wasn't a lot of chains like massage, mb and things like this now. So you really did have to promote yourself and that was really hard for a bunch of hippie introverts. Or you know, like, how do you explain that you're good at touching? Or you know like they just they didn't really have a good marketing mind. In that sense that wasn't their skill and so a lot of times they just uh, set it down. Actually, and I see that with artists they they create a lot, but they can't take the feedback on people's perceptions of their stuff and they're afraid sometimes that it will even change their flow or compromise things. Or some people are like great, tell me what you need, because I have skill and I'll make it happen. It just depends on the artist. I think you have to decide.
Kathi:Am I doing the art solely for the expression, or do I also want to sell it? And it's okay if you want one or the other or both, and then how do you actually do that?
Alexis:And the big thing is to understand what you're getting into. Yeah, because a lot of people say well, you know, I'm going to 100% stick to my ethics and my idea of it and not listen to anybody else and not change or anything like that. But I want a really you know high dollar lifestyle. Usually doesn't go together.
Robin:Yeah, that's true. It's good to understand the platform and what it can actually yield.
Kathi:Yeah, yeah, and I also, as I have explored the creative side of writing.
Robin:Yeah, let's dive into that. So you're in the flow, you're running your own business, you're championing people into looking at what has them thrive, and then you found yourself into more creative outlets. Yeah.
Kathi:Yeah, I? Um my interests do flow. Um uh, you and I worked together uh many years ago now, um on the world inside you and created a platform for um, taking another interest, which was yoga and mindfulness and, uh, inquiry or self inquiry, and creating something that could be used in the workplace to bring that to other people. Very important, and that was a whole, like we, we went down that rabbit hole and really created something.
Robin:I love genius. I'm like a project whisperer, like I love getting behind what people's passions are and making it happen. Alexis and I have a few things that we're doing, you know, like this podcast, and I just told her like I love being that helper, like getting up under people and going like let's rock this passion.
Speaker 4:And.
Robin:Kathy kept saying I want yoga to be in corporations, I want yoga for people who are at the job, and I said, okay, what do you need to do? And she goes oh well, we need to meet at Brazil's and get it going.
Kathi:And I'm like oh, okay, and we created from there, and actually I just it's like things happen and then they, they go away for a little while and they come back. So I have been involved in this group called the Women in the Visual and Literary Arts here in Houston. Wow, they're an amazing group, and so you're bringing artists you know, visual artists together and writers creative you know writers Beautiful yeah, together, and it's really great, and one of the things that we're we're creating right now is what we're calling a speaker's round table.
Kathi:Okay, and I met with one of the you know, uh, some of the members of that group and I was sharing about the world inside you and I said I created. We could use this as a platform sure for artists to be able to talk about their work. It's a nice self-inquiry piece it's all about like that people could be doing art, you know, and so the program's there, the structure's there, and then we just help train the trainer for the facilitators to actually use that product to help talk about their art.
Robin:And how big is the women's group that you're with?
Kathi:We have about 125 members right now Beautiful, and we're growing and we're excited about that. Um, we have an anthology that I should share um, for your audience, that if you want to contribute your writing or your art, um, that's currently open. I don't remember when the closing date is, but, um, uh, it's open to anyone, um, that defines himself as a woman okay, across, and it doesn't have to be in houston, okay, um, uh, so it's open for that. And then, um, it's like poetry, flash fiction, flash created, non-fiction, uh, or the cover art.
Robin:Okay, yeah, so anyway they would find it at.
Kathi:WIVLAorg W-I-V-L-A dot org.
Robin:Okay, one more time for people writing that down. Okay, it's W-I-V-.
Kathi:L-A dot org Wonderful.
Alexis:And that was V not.
Kathi:B V.
Robin:As in Victor, there we go, we have a lot of artists and they may be just writers or they might be, you know, expanding out to writers and art. You know art and it just depends you know, but it sounds like what you have is a supportive group that's inclusive and open to whatever the self-expression is that can be put in an anthology yeah, exactly.
Kathi:Okay, I think the other exhibit just closed. We have an exhibit coming up called Rise for the Artists and if you want to come to the opening that's happening in what month are we in? I think it's early July.
Robin:Yeah, you have a few coming up, so you have one at the end of June and we're in mid-June right now, and then you have a Zoom option. July 7th-ish.
Kathi:For my launch, my book launch. I have a Zoom on July 7th and if anyone would like to join us for that, they can send me an email at kathycrawford at gmailcom.
Alexis:And I'm going to slow you down and have you repeat it again.
Robin:Okay, go just a little slower.
Kathi:Go slower yeah kathycrawford C-R-A-W-F-O-R-D at gmailcom.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Kathi:Okay, perfect, and that's July 7th. It's at 6mailcom. Yeah, okay Perfect, and that's July 7th.
Robin:It's at 630. And that's going to be in Houston, but there's a Zoom option. It's just, it's all virtual. Oh, it's all virtual.
Kathi:Perfect, Perfect and the other thing that's happening. I belong to an organization called Right Space.
Robin:Okay, so Kathy gets around a lot, that's what we're noticing no, no, no, no, although she's in the flow, she's a very active flow. You know, I do like people.
Kathi:Yeah, you're good. Yeah you are. You're very into people. I'm highly sociable.
Robin:So are you, robin? This is completely why Kathy and I get along. Yeah, like where there's a group, there's a way. I mean it's a surprise.
Kathi:The other one is in person at rightspaceorg. Okay, and they have a monthly open mic. Beautiful, and I am the featured reader. It's the fourth Friday, or I think it's. They say no, no, no, it's the last Friday of the month. That's important. And I think it starts at 7 pm. Okay, and it's in sabine street studios over in sawyer yards good, so some ac fun what month is this?
Robin:it's happening um in june, so okay, so we 27th yeah, june 27th indoor fun, which is very important in houston because it's hot and what I heard was open mic right, yes, so other people are going to read their work, so you can sign up to read on.
Kathi:if you go to writespaceorg and you look for their events and it'd be the monthly readings, I think takes you out to Eventbrite and then you can sign up to read. But you know what. If you don't sign up and you show up, you can still get on the list. You still rock the mic. Exactly that's great and it's really fun. I love everybody that comes. It's so fun.
Robin:You're always somebody, no matter what you're doing. You give access to the next person, and that's a beautiful thing that I think a lot of us can really take on. If we don't have it already, it's just maybe, you know, just not in the foreground for people, but lifting the next person up, giving space to that, is always been a passion for you and I.
Robin:I've always admired that. So, getting into poetry, getting into nonfiction, coming out of HR but still still doing your business, what level of expression has that opened up for you? Cause some people might hear poetry it's not my thing. Because some people might hear poetry, it's not my thing. Or they might hear oh my God, maybe I've always been wanting to write, you know, but I don't know where to start. Why would it, why would I take on this? Another thing when I only have so much free time? Like, what expression popped out for you? I love that question, like what's your?
Robin:ROI on this. Look, you know you're right.
Kathi:A lot of people do not like poetry, and I'm okay with that, absolutely. I think that I like writing poetry and flash, which is, you know, generally speaking, less than a thousand words. Okay, but it's more prose. Nice, it's because of my business career and so I I write short anyway. Too many white papers, yeah.
Robin:Pull the points, you know yeah.
Kathi:Um, so I think that's part of the of being drawn to it. The other thing is, I like a puzzle, and I think poetry is like a puzzle. Okay, uh, there's so much to learn about the craft of poetry, and I also like how more current poets are mixing it up a lot. I like to read contemporary poetry, more so than you know. I don't know the greats, so to speak, and yet you can go back to the history of poetry and learn a lot about. Just took a class recently on you know, sort of feminism and in in poetry and and you know early poets, um, and even how their work became known was a challenge, right?
Robin:Because women weren't supposed to be grabbing little things poetry and all of that.
Kathi:So there's a whole history there that I think is really interesting. So what did it unlock? For me is a way to sort of tap into my life story that I couldn't do otherwise and to also have kind of a relationship with it, sure, and understand myself better. Yeah, instead of I think we can get into telling our stories the same way all the time, right To where you're not even really thinking about it anymore.
Robin:Yeah, and some people are like journal, journal, journal and people like don't say journaling one more time right, you know, and then they're like okay, but but in your, in your visual appearance, when you're talking, it sounds like you really did tap into something in a place where you were able to be on a different level with yourself.
Kathi:That occurs to me as tender yes, and I think that there is a shared humanity here that I want us to be able to tap into and you know, I see myself in other people and maybe they'll see themselves in me in a way that can be empowering or can be. You know, I'm not alone, yeah that's beautiful.
Robin:We're in Alexis's house recording and we're surrounded by artists who have done work in painting and in metal art and surreal. You know we're not really sure what we're looking at, type of situations, and some people find themselves in words, you know, they find themselves on how they present in paper and and for some people that's not the platform. Like Alexis and I were talking earlier we both are. I don't know, have you ever been tested for dyslexia? Oh, yeah, okay.
Alexis:I'm extremely dyslexic. I haven't been tested and that makes poetry a huge challenge for me. Okay, because I don't see the words the way someone put them on paper.
Kathi:That's interesting, though right. It's like even the way you see them. It's frustrating, is it?
Alexis:frustrating. Yes, it's very frustrating, because I have two modes of reading. I either can read word, word, word word, which is very slow and very tedious because I have to reassemble them in my mind, or I can read a full page. Now I can go through a book and read full pages all along, but poetry, that doesn't work.
Kathi:When hear it, is it?
Robin:better.
Alexis:That's what I asked it frequently is, except I think sometimes people over emphasize things that I wouldn't emphasize in the way they, in the way they present it when they're reading it would be a way of reading poetry.
Kathi:That's yeah.
Robin:Oh, that's her reading poetry and that's where. That's where I was saying you know it helped. Personally, I've never been tested for dyslexia, but I mix up things verbally and while when I'm reading and it it's clear, it's clear. I don't even need to waste the money on the test anyways and, uh, I appreciate some of the new tools that have come out. But, yeah, I really got into oral poetry when people were sharing their own writing. One of that is because I loved hearing their own voice and I'm a very audio person, like I retain a lot through listening, but I could hear their passion in it and when there's passion in it, without yelling because some poetry can get kind of violent and graphic and that's when I have to exit but the passion in that for me really turned on with Andrea Gibson.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah.
Robin:They're a poet laureate for Colorado right now, actually, and I got to see them when they came through Houston and they shared about their life and about a nonprofit they had that was called something to the effect of stay with us, and they were speaking to people on the outskirts that didn't fit in and saying, like I know what it's like to be in that loneliness and I want that connection in that loneliness and I want that connection and and they, they, they shared it in a way where the people who resonated with that loneliness would hear the keywords and feel related, you know, and they've continued to grow, but I've mainly watched their, their videos, because, because I love hearing their, their vibe.
Alexis:Yeah, you know, since you mentioned it, one of the things that's interesting is if it's a person that wrote it, I tend to enjoy it, like Chris Winters, for instance, I happen to enjoy her reading her poetry, but if it's someone else performing their poetry, it just doesn't work for me.
Robin:Right, chris, chris Winters they them pronouns is in San Antonio and they were a poet we brought in for the unity banquet. But they continue to have a blog and support people and just getting their expression out for themselves is healing, but they do hope to connect with the next person and some poets have that agenda, some poets don't, you know, but uh it, it can be life-saving for people to go oh, there's someone else out there like me, and when I would, when I was a kid growing up, I went into half price books and I would always go to the LGBT section, you know, and I couldn't read these big long textbooks or autobiographies, you know.
Robin:I was like that's not going to work, work but I went for the poetry books and I'm like, okay, I found myself a little bit in that, you know, and um, that's neat, it's, it's just interesting. So if you're finding yourself in a way where you want to newly connect with yourself, maybe pick up some, some.
Kathi:Some poetry is what I'm hearing yeah and yeah, and I think andrea is a good person to uh follow um. They also have a sub stack. Oh, okay, and um you know if you're on that stack, I definitely follow Andrea because, um, yeah, I I feel like they are really trying to help others and, uh, in a very accessible way.
Robin:Absolutely, absolutely so. So poetry is such a big world. I just want to point out like, if you haven't vibed with it, maybe, maybe, don't, maybe don't give up, you know, maybe just try on some other things sometimes but it sounds like you've met this collective with the women's group that you're with, where they uh collaborate, where somebody has a painting and then someone writes a poem with it, or someone has a photograph and someone writes a poem with it, or something.
Robin:So, that's kind of cool because it it, it sort of cross pollinates the art platforms.
Kathi:It does, and it's a form of poetry, is acrostic. Writing is where you, where you write in response to art, ooh, okay, okay. So, and that is an area I really love as well.
Kathi:So in my book the cover art was created by Brooke Summers Perry from a poem that I wrote, and we did that as a collaboration last year with Wivla, last year with Wibla. Then I also have another poem in there called Rest Stop, which is my friend Melody Locke, who is a photographer. It was one of her photos that I was responding to and writing to. So, yeah, I mean, I really like you know, working with art in that way and then what's kind of coming from?
Kathi:it Not to really take away from what the artist intended for it per se, but what does it mean to me, in sort of the expression that I'm feeling from it and then writing about it?
Alexis:Well, one of the things if you look around, I don't have any figurative art. I don't like figurative art.
Robin:What I like is pure impressionist or non-figurative, and you get to decide what you want that's right and it's interesting because it changes how you see something, depending on your mood yeah, yeah, in fact, do you like to do art tours where you hear what the person? Oh yeah, I will not tell anyone what the painting is, or?
Alexis:what the artist sees. Oh yeah, I will not tell anyone what the painting is or what the artist thought until after they've told me what they think.
Robin:And it's really interesting because some of them are just hilariously funny and then that way you get like a different art tour every time oh yeah, I like that idea.
Alexis:That's yeah good yeah I have about 230 pieces of artwork on three floors. Oh my gosh.
Robin:And you have a specific way that you collect right. If you don't feel positive or good, then you're not really drawn to it.
Alexis:I collect based on feelings. I have a few things that people have given me and they're hung because they're nice from the artist or whatever and they're sort of they're nice from the artist or whatever and they're sort of like in the same place.
Kathi:We don't have that much art on our walls, but we want more and more, I find.
Robin:It's hard to not want more and support artists when you really get into it, but then there's like only so much wall space.
Alexis:I was somewhat fortunate, because most of what I have I bought when the artists weren't extremely well known. Oh, okay, and that makes a huge difference in what you can afford or not afford.
Robin:Definitely and you made this point to me recently, alexis that you can also barter and get in and just support artists. And sometimes you know you, they can give things that way and and it's neat because you get to get a relationship with them. They're not just you know the pieces you get from them or whatnot. But this is really great because houston has a lot of different art venues where you can go see it. That is a lot of indoor fun. A lot of it is very accessible. On certain days it can be free, and then if you want to explore your expression through art, where would you say some people can get started through poetry you know what I will mention.
Kathi:Another event that's coming up, sure, with wivla, as part of the rise exhibition. Um, you can go out to their calendar at wivlaorg. Um and uh, they're going to be doinga ekphrastic writing class with the artwork for the exhibit what kind of writing ekphrastic okay, and what does that word mean?
Robin:I think that's the one where you respond to the other arts right that you're just saying you're writing in response to the art.
Kathi:Okay, so they can walk around the exhibit. In this particular situation, they'll walk around the exhibit and then they might make some notes or write a poem. You could write a story. You can write whatever you want. You can journal, yeah, yeah.
Robin:Oh no, not journal did I answer all of your questions? I think so, okay.
Alexis:Yeah, absolutely I haven't asked many, so you have plenty more okay, do you want to ask more?
Robin:okay, she's ready now.
Alexis:Okay, okay oh, she's ready now. So you know like in my case, I have trouble accessing poetry. I think one of the things that would be very nice is to know where poetry is going to be read and by whom. Okay, and you know, I don't like it if it's not read by the person that wrote it, because I don't think anyone else really knows how they meant it.
Speaker 4:Right right.
Alexis:And you know, my brain will make its own exceptions and interpretations of it, and so I think that's one of the big things. The other thing about it is that how could we in general support that? I mean, one of the big things that I do is I've been an activist for inclusiveness and diversity and everything since well, a long time 1963. Excellent.
Robin:Since she arrived on scene, I mean.
Alexis:I've been out as a transgender person since 1955, just to give you a hint. So you know I always laugh when people are like well, this person wasn't nice to me and I'm like, get used to it. You know what I mean. Welcome to the world. You know, not everyone's nice. I know you grew up with everyone being nice to you, no, but then usually it was something that was minor and it's like that, nothing. So you know, whatever. But I guess my whole thing is that how do we incorporate this part of the arts into trying to basically convince people to be nicer and work on inclusiveness etc? I mean, you were in HR. You know that there are people who are terribly resistant to diversity and inclusiveness. I mean it's ridiculous. But what can I say? It's not my opinion.
Kathi:Totally, I'm with you.
Alexis:And so you know how do we use that to help with that end.
Kathi:What makes the world go round is the diversity of the uniqueness of all of us, but not everyone agrees with that, I know. So you ask a big question and I'm wondering let me start with the poetry and I'm wondering let me start with the poetry.
Kathi:I think in terms of we actually in Houston have a great community of writers and readers and opportunities to engage. The University of Houston has an excellent program in MFA and other sort of programs that people are coming to our city to complete and so, as a result, some of the nonprofits have people teaching these classes that are coming from that program. One of those is InPrint I-N-P-R-I-N-T.
Robin:I do see a lot of their marketing.
Kathi:InPrintorg and they have a um first Friday reading of every month and it's an imprint house which is over by the Manel and people are reading their original work. So, uh, it's an open mic and she has, um, kelly Ellis runs that now and they have, uh, featured readers and then they have open mic.
Robin:So do they work with writers in the schools? Is that also over there? They do actually Um writers in the school.
Kathi:Schools used to have a house right across the street.
Robin:That's what I was thinking. Now there's a hotel there. Yeah, houston's almost changing.
Kathi:I don't know where they moved to, but they do a lot of collaborations. And then Imprint has a reading series and the tickets are only $5 to the general public. They just finished their season, but that's always a lot of fun to go to and they bring in great writers. So there's that organization, there's Write Space. I've already mentioned Archway Gallery over here on dunleavy we do a an open mic on the. It's coming up this thursday so what are we?
Robin:is it? The third thursday yeah, and we'll get this out when we get this out, but we'll, I'll go through it and I'll make sure we have these website links for okay, great yeah so you don't have to be the full calendar, but it is good to hear the offerings because we're not a small town, but it is hard to find these spaces. We need audiences.
Kathi:To your point, I think a little bit is let's bring people out to hear us. You know we're expressing ourselves through our creative art here.
Alexis:Well, and one of the things I mean, I do a lot of work. That's not the right term, but I work with a lot of politicians because you know, like it or not, your advocacy. Yeah, they do a lot of stuff and my advocacy is very different than a lot of the people's the way I do it. Basically, I like to sit down with them one-on-one or a small number of people, as opposed to the guys which go wave flags or testify. You know, in Texas it's already decided there's no point in doing most of that in my opinion, and so, you know, work with a lot of them, and it would be nice to get some of the politicians to start dropping in and listening to some of the things that might make them a little bit more flexible.
Kathi:A little more open.
Alexis:yeah, and you know you're not going to get to people who really you'd like to have there. But that's fine. But you never know. Or if you get to people around them, you know it spills over after a while.
Robin:Absolutely, you never know. And to what you know Kathy's speaking of is. It does bring up the humanity connection piece and it reminds me of the Supreme Court justice that actually went out and was listening at the Black Lives Matter protests and it really changed some of his views. Was that, roberts? I'm going to mess it up if it's not.
Alexis:Yeah, I mean Roberts is the chief justice.
Robin:Maybe it was him, I'm not sure, but you never know where an official might show up and connect to that humanity.
Kathi:You never know, and you know what. Getting up to a microphone and sharing a poem or a short story is very vulnerable, for sure, and you know so I think, yeah, there's a part of this process of having grace for the speaker, and we're all very supportive of them.
Alexis:And if it's your writing, sharing it is way different than reading somebody else's, yeah.
Kathi:I mean, I will admit, I have cried. I've been reading my work.
Robin:I think when Chris came to the Unity Banquet that was their first time, and the Unity Banquet could be anywhere from 200 people to 150.
Alexis:A little over 200 people there.
Robin:I mean, that's no small mic. Well, there you go, a little over 200 people there.
Alexis:I mean, that's no small mic.
Robin:Well, there you go.
Alexis:And the big thing about it is the people who were there, you know. I mean they're well-known politicians, well-known people Actually we had politicians, yeah, yeah. Lgbtq plus community and all like that. And Chris got up and was like, oh my gosh, chris is small.
Robin:But it's funny because but then they came back the next year. They were like oh, I'm ready now, but it can be very empowering to be received by the audience, do you feel like? Since it is an open mic situation, I do want to speak a little bit to maybe what Alexis is dancing around? So you said that the women are receptive to all forms of people, whether it's race or gender identity or you know, because it could be a little scary to walk up and all of a sudden talk about an intersex poem or something.
Speaker 4:I would say all the venues I've been in absolutely Empathetically.
Kathi:yes.
Robin:Well, that's great, because you're going been to a lot.
Kathi:I mean, there's basket books there's another really good venue.
Speaker 4:I can't speak to every possible venue, but certainly the places that I've been in in those environments have been very inclusive.
Robin:I know basket books in Montrose. Maybe we can have the owners on or something, but they've been very inclusive in their offerings I've been it's actually reconnected me to houston poets that I know I'm actually going to see their work there they're, they're facilitating uh, quite a few like readings and discussions, which I like the discussion part too because if you're not necessarily interested in the poetry part but you do want to support the artist, you can still go have conversations with them.
Kathi:Yeah, the independent bookstores in houston are pretty open from what I found great. I know brasa's bookstore also does a lot of readings I just was fortunate to be able to go here.
Robin:Ocean long book I do like Ocean.
Speaker 4:Oh my gosh.
Kathi:And have y'all read his book.
Robin:Not yet, Not yet Well.
Speaker 4:I listen to it.
Robin:I have the Libby app, so I get my books from the library the audio and it's the audio, and so anyway the reading of it is amazing. Is it in his?
Kathi:voice.
Robin:No.
Speaker 4:Okay, but the reader is really good.
Kathi:Okay, it really does.
Robin:That's great. It does it well, wow, okay, so Ocean Wong is his last name. Yeah, I heard some interviews with him and it turned me on to his poetry because he was really well-received when there was abuse towards Asians the Asian spa, I think, in.
Robin:I'm going to mess it up like yeah, and it's sort of right when his poetry was coming up, so he was speaking to Asian American violence and then this was happening, and so a lot of times art can be a nice platform for people to understand someone else's existence when they do want to say well, wait a minute, I don't want to be violent towards these people, I want to learn about these people. Where should I look? And then poetry, books, music, you know, documentaries those are sort of the go-to for the intellects, and so I think he got platformed a little bit higher than he was even thinking he would during that experience, and now he's really working on that.
Kathi:That's great. He writes a combination of fiction and poetry Wonderful. He's a great writer.
Speaker 4:Great individual, yeah, yeah.
Robin:So, there's quite a few interviews up with him right now that you can listen to that you'll find inspiring, and some of these poets, like Alok, are also comedians and sort of have more of a social worker aspect to them. So I feel like if you can listen to some of their stuff, you're tuning into your own self-help, which I think is great, Like it's not all there I was in nature or whatever Alok has their recent stand-up on YouTube.
Kathi:That is really good. Yeah, have you watched it?
Robin:I saw them on a queer Netflix variety that Hannah emceed, but I don't know that. I've seen Alok's special, only Is it just them, yeah it's the latest tour that he did well, I'll tell you what don't ever give up.
Robin:Because Alok came through Houston when they had maybe two books and they were partnered with the PFLAG tour and highlighted it was a dual booking with the Everyone's Gay Project was coming through and these two people basically had a riff off of a politician saying, well, everyone's gay or no one's gay, and they were like, oh yeah, we're starting the Everyone's Gay Project, like that's it. We're doing this in reaction to this dude. And it was on youtube when youtube was getting popular and they were doing video q and a's with people just answering a lot of lgbt questions and so their platform went really high.
Robin:And then they did a book with p flag. That was uh sort of a multi-narrative book. Each chapter was like like this is a bisexual experience, this is a trans experience, this is whatever. And so PFLAG put out the. This is the gay, this is a book for parents of gay kids. So it was like very like here's the one book you need, and there's never one book.
Speaker 4:But you know it was a starter book, right, so they came through town and you know, true Texas bless their hearts.
Robin:Like they were at a church that was very inclusive, but like nobody really knew about this event at all. There were probably like four people there, oh my gosh. And now you would look at a look and imagine I'm sure they want to get a venue with only four people there, like you know they can fill a lot to get a venue.
Robin:With only four people there, they can fill a lot of venues and I really appreciate their work. I really appreciate the projects that people have built their platforms on. Before that maybe weren't so successful, but they got the conversation started. You have to start somewhere, yeah, so ride that wave, don't give up. Don't give up.
Alexis:One of the things, just sitting sitting here, I was thinking about then. I mean, I don't know whether people ever need some inspiration, if you will, but one of the things that we have is the Transgender Archives. It's part of the Transgender Foundation of America and it's interesting because we have thousands of items, literally, and and it's always sort of funny because we've never been able to get through it, to catalog it, because one of our rules is, as we're going through doing stuff, if you find something interesting, you share, and the work session suddenly becomes a party it just does and you know I'm not going.
Alexis:Guys, we shouldn't share stuff. That's really neat, because we should. And I was just thinking, you know if there's anything that the archives might do to make some things available or whatever, especially in the winter, when it's, you know, more comfortable outside. Yeah, so if you're the winter, when it's, you know, more comfortable outside, yeah, yeah.
Robin:So if you're in houston, and you know, maybe if you're not in houston, but you, we, we have some images that are photo based yeah and we can send you photos and things. A lot of times we get students that are interested in finding out about trans history, but it does include other people, but it's mainly trans focused and you can come in person and look at the items, touch them, see them, or we can send you images if you're a farm, and it's not just Houston-focused.
Alexis:I mean an awful lot of the archives around Houston are Houston-focused. Ours is pretty much international. I mean we have stuff from all over the world.
Robin:We just get things and it's a beautiful thing. People will send us an item and we truly mean an item. It could be a magazine, it could be an ashtray.
Alexis:It could be someone else's painting, it could be a banner from an event they had.
Robin:It could be a wedding dress, it could be a journal, it could be lots of stuff, and they hardly ever put a note in as to why this is important, because they just sent the items.
Speaker 4:They're like don't figure it out, no problem.
Robin:We were here one day and a package came and somebody gave. Basically I want to say it was like ebony, like a black magazine from like maybe I'm going to mess it up, but like let's just say the 70s or something, or you know. And so we're like, okay, well, it's a black magazine and on the cover it said basically here's the percentages of what it takes to be white, because at the time there were, you weren't. You weren't Because at the time you weren't classified as white or African American unless you had certain percentages.
Speaker 4:Or something and to Alexis's point.
Robin:I mean just looking at this front cover had a whole conversation and a whole history piece right. But that's not why they sent it. And so then we have to go through this large magazine of all, of all this history, to see like, what part is trans, right, like, and at the back and sometimes you're just guessing.
Alexis:I have no idea what this is and frequently they don't tell you where it came from this was actually really clear.
Robin:So we went to the back and it was, it was highlighting a show of of uh, female impersonators and and it was quite positive show of female impersonators and it was quite positive Way more than the cover, you know, well-received and we're like, oh, this is why they sent it to us, but it frames. You know that we've been grappling with multi-layered issues for years, as a society right and so, and that can really inspire people.
Robin:But where do you find that you get your inspiration? Or the poets that you work with get inspiration. In case maybe that's not the one thing, are there other areas? If someone's like you know what? I don't know about poetry, but I would really like to be inspired for life in general. Like, do you have, do you have, some go-to places for those sparks?
Kathi:that's. That's a good question. I mean, I I don't know where the use comes from sometimes right but, uh, one of the things that I put myself into to help me with that is taking classes with instructors that I trust, that I know are going to bring generative exercises that will help me kind of.
Kathi:Maybe they're asking the questions for me to think about something in my life that I've totally forgotten about, or an experience that I'm currently having, or something's happening in the world right. Or I'm currently having or something's happening in the world right or happened in the world or something, yeah it just comes through that inquiry and those questions and most of the time they're having
Kathi:us read a poem or a story and then you don't necessarily follow the same approach, but you can of how that writer might have come to writing maybe there's certain structures that you maybe it's you know, four lines per stanza, or you know it's, it's an ekphrastic writing
Robin:or it's you acrostic writing or we're all looking at the same photograph, right.
Kathi:The different stories that come out of just one piece of art is pretty amazing because, like you, were saying it's whatever is coming to the person who's writing it.
Speaker 4:So yeah, I can be writing out of anger.
Robin:That can really inspire people.
Speaker 4:I use it's called it's called blackout poetry.
Kathi:I was taking a class, a couple months ago on resistance writing. Wow on resistance writing. Wow, and um, um, I have a couple, uh, um, blackout poems that I wrote. One was from um the interaction of Trump and um um Zelensky. What?
Robin:There was, there was anger there, just kidding.
Speaker 4:And, and, and, and, and, and and Zelensky, what?
Robin:There was anger there. Just kidding, and Kathy might drop the mic.
Speaker 4:Heather Cox Richardson writes a daily. She's a history teacher, basically, and you may know her, but anyway she wrote about it and then I erased that and I wrote a poem.
Kathi:So anyway, nice.
Speaker 4:And that's just a way of me getting my anger out.
Robin:How did you feel afterwards? Like, what result did you have? Because, some people would just break plates, you know, I mean.
Kathi:I felt better. But I mean, you know it doesn't change the situation. Sure, sure it can change something in me and how I am seeing it and how I'm letting it affect me or not affect me. Yeah, so it helps me go through a process that I can release the anger and, at the same time, feel like I've done in my own way, sure and something about it.
Robin:Sure, well, you helped yourself and that's important and your process is bringing up. I think it was a poet named joshua, but he gave himself a challenge. He was, he is a poet, he's also a gardener. He gave himself a challenge to find one thing that gave him some sort of spark of joy, awe, delight, like day period Cause he's going through a lot of hard stuff and inside of that he started sharing with people this goal, this focus, and people were like well, I geez, I need.
Robin:I need to do that too, like you know, and and now he's written a book on it and gotten a lot of interviews and things like this. But it brings to the point where we're in a lot of clickbait and rage media. We can also look towards the other things also. We can also find those places where it gives you center and joy, and one of the things Alexis has reminded me of recently is the beauty of blooming flowers and I mean they're so beautiful of blooming flowers and I mean they're so beautiful. I, during the pandemic, was the first time I started looking at plants, because everyone in my neighborhood was gardening and everyone was donating plants to me and I'm horrible with plants, like I was actually convinced like well, this is okay because they can't deal with their plant dying, so they give it to me and I'm basically the graveyard like I don't know because I just never saw them re blooming or hatching you know, I was just like.
Robin:First of all, I don't have the patience for this second of all, I don't I just think it's gone now, you know, uh, but recently with alexis, she's a bit of a green thumb, if you will, and knows how to pick the right plants, and now I finally see real blooms and I get it.
Kathi:Yeah, yeah, I'm like it's a great idea Invigorating.
Alexis:And you know, it's sort of like joyous, if you will, and that whole bit. I mean, I had a very lush backyard before we had the super heavy freeze a while back when they tried to freeze all of us to death too, you know, in that whole bed, and so I just literally this year got around to rehabbing it to some degree, and so it's starting to look better and it gives you something to look forward to right and you never know what you're going to see each morning.
Alexis:So it's sort of like nice to wake up what are things that inspire you?
Robin:where do you find the muse or where do you process your rage or anything like that that you're going through these days, Alexis?
Alexis:Are you looking at me?
Robin:Yeah.
Alexis:Oh, all sorts of things inspire me. I mean I have a very broad set of interests. I mean, if I really look at it, the artwork that I have makes me happy. If it doesn't make me happy, then I'm probably not going to acquire it, because happiness is for me something that's really important. I can be sad any time and I have plenty of things I could be sad over.
Alexis:But it's like if you spend your life that way, it's sort of a waste. But you know it's like if you spend your life that way it's sort of a waste. And you know it's sort of funny because there's a little. You can't see it from here, but there's a little Miro piece that's on the stairway. As you come down you have to see it and it's three little Weeble-type people and it's just funny and you just have to almost smile when you see it and it's like okay, so before I go downstairs you have to see that, otherwise you're going to basically fall down the stairs and you know it just sort of it starts you off being a little bit happy.
Robin:That's good, and then you know like the black piece over here.
Alexis:There's a vertical black piece that you can probably see. You might have to lean up to see it. Yeah, the little things that look like rocks are actually Indian. You know Native American medicine packets, and they basically don't let evil spirits pass and it's set so that they can't go upstairs, they can stay downstairs
Kathi:forever, but they don't get to come upstairs.
Alexis:I need one of those. Yeah, exactly, and I think it works.
Speaker 4:I've had people who are like oh no, I'm not going upstairs.
Alexis:It doesn't feel good. I'm like perfect, oh, that's good.
Speaker 4:Didn't want you upstairs anyway, but I wasn't sure how to say that. One of the things that I've just taken up.
Kathi:Okay, so one of the reasons I'm joining Wibble is because I'm very curious about visual art, but I'm terrified to actually do it. Like I'm not going to be good at that. I can't draw stickers or whatever, so I signed up for this class online and it's a mixed media and collage. I'm really intrigued by collage where you're mixing words but you're mixing pieces you're cutting out.
Alexis:Yeah.
Kathi:Paint and all that. So I'm doing that right now, nice.
Alexis:Well, you know, basically I take pictures, I do photography and all like that, and it's funny because I don't think a whole lot of it, but other people really like it. So you know, it's like that's okay. I People really like it. So you know, it's like that's okay, I'll trust them.
Robin:Well, I love that you two have just met today and I know that you have one thing in common, and it just came up that if you don't know of something or you're afraid of something, you're like all right, well, I'm just going to do it.
Speaker 4:You know, if I find that I'm afraid, then it's like, yes, we're going to do it. Yes, we're going to do it. Yes, we're going to do it, we're going to move towards it instead of away from it. Yeah, I have no choice.
Kathi:Yeah, there's a. Loretta Zajac has a. She's the editor for an online magazine called the Ecstatic.
Alexis:Review. So if you guys do want to, read some poetry and flash that's art-based.
Speaker 4:I would recommend going to that.
Kathi:I think it's the plasticreviewnet, but I can't be sure.
Speaker 4:I'll find it.
Robin:And Lorette is leading this class.
Kathi:She is a collage mixed media artist in Canada. So I've been following her Instagram for quite a while.
Speaker 4:I've taken many classes from her on the writing side, but then she offered this class, okay. Okay, it's something I've wanted to do and it's nice, nice.
Robin:So if you're leaning towards something where maybe you're a little afraid but it might offer some good in your life, like dive in. And if you are looking for some joy, some awesome delights, like try new things, you know, for me it's like picking a new dj.
Alexis:Okay, I gotta interrupt. Make sure you're going to be safe when you do it yes, yes, yes, safety, first safety first yes, yes safety first yes, I have a slightly different direction when you write physically. How physically? How do you write? Do you write on a computer? Do you write with pen and pencil? How do you write?
Speaker 4:Yes, that's a good answer.
Robin:Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 4:I probably lean more towards the computer. However, we all think it's weird in our own process but I might start with my journal, which is that little blue book down there.
Kathi:I might start just writing down some ideas or some things in there, and then when I get to a point where it's forming into a poem, then I want to get on the computer and start to create it and then I'll go through a couple iterations and I read it into a voice recorder and I listen to it
Kathi:and when you do read it it's different than when it's on the page so I get to a certain point of that and then I will have some different people that I'll share my work with that I can trust.
Speaker 4:They're like, yeah, let me read what you're doing, and then they'll tell me, you know maybe how it went or something.
Robin:You have your own test group. They can stop talking. Your support system. Yeah, that's good.
Kathi:And then I'll go work it again. So I go from pencil and paper to computer, to audio. Yeah, and I've learned that on Word there's a thing that you can actually have it read to you. Oh yeah, okay, okay. I just learned this recently.
Robin:Yeah, that's nice.
Kathi:So I can listen to the automated voice Very helpful. They always have this break at the end of the line. That seems unnatural.
Robin:Yeah, different accents yeah.
Alexis:I have a couple of text-to-speech programs that I use. Some of them are really good, some of them aren't. Some of them you can change the accent, which makes a real big difference sometimes.
Robin:Oh, I should play around with that. Yeah, play around with it, yeah.
Kathi:So yeah, so there's no real way and I'm not somebody that has a daily practice yeah, um yeah, yeah it really just I let the I
Alexis:just let it flow nice, yeah, nice I mean for most of my life, when I would write, I would write basically longhand, so the millennials can't read it, and I would use, you know, either pen or you know I like fountain pens and so I would do something with that. But it always had to start off with a new pencil or a new pen.
Kathi:Okay, yeah, I have a certain pen that I always use.
Alexis:Yeah, and my big thing is nope needs to be new. This is a new pen. Okay, yeah, and my big thing is nope needs to be new. This is a new, new and it's hilarious because I have a lot of pens and pencils but, uh, but I always thought that was sort of funny. And then, as my arthritis got worse, where that's not something I can do with an easy flow, I'm going over to the computer and then I've started recording things now and and transcribing them.
Robin:Yeah, and I have a little microphone. Yeah, it's beautiful.
Kathi:Usually when I'm into the poem like you know when I go to bed. I've been up, you know, past midnight.
Alexis:How can I phrase it? No, you don't, and I'm like I can't finish it. It's not done you obviously have an experience, you just have to channel your own inner vampire again no, I can't.
Speaker 4:I can't, I mean you know, maybe I've aged out as a vampire at this stage. But yeah, no, I like I'm happy, I'm back, but happy or bad, but I've learned. That's actually where some of the ideas if I let go of it for a minute, I get into my dreams and sometimes that's where it can resurface.
Kathi:And the next morning I'll have a thing on my phone where I can make notes when I'm walking. I will make notes, so I have different ways to sort of capture those ideas do you still walk a lot I? Do yes, so different ways to sort of capture those ideas.
Robin:Do you still walk a lot? I do, I do, yeah. Do you find walking in certain areas you know inspires certain things? Or is it the motion of walking that will bring something up?
Speaker 4:I would say both.
Robin:I mean I live in the Montrose area so there's a lot of places I can walk to that have different vibes so there's a lot of places I can walk to that have different vibes and so I tend to.
Speaker 4:I like the nature Sure.
Robin:The pictures of flowers and trees and unusual things that I see, but I do also tend to walk the same streets a lot of times, even though I'll mix those particular streets up change.
Alexis:That's one of the things that I like is it is watching the change. Now, you know, I don't like watching the change where it's, because, well, there was a house there, now there's no house and now there's an office building which is like a weekly challenge almost. I mean, it goes so fast, it's unbelievable.
Kathi:I wrote a poem about the changing of a certain place.
Robin:So if people want to follow your work and maybe even have your book, how would they find you?
Kathi:Yes, the best place is my blog, kathycroffordcom. So K-A-T-H-I-C-R-A-W-F-R-D, but no dot, no dot. No dot All right.
Alexis:I was about to ask that.
Kathi:Well, I've made the mistake, so I know other people might.
Robin:And there's a button on there to go to Finishing Line Press. Who is?
Kathi:the press that is, publishing the book.
Speaker 4:And it's currently in pre-order so you can get a discount.
Robin:So now's the time to buy.
Kathi:And if you want me to sign it, I am going to have a signing in. October over at Sabine Street Studios.
Speaker 4:I have a friend.
Kathi:Donna Carnahan, who has a studio over there, so you can buy it and bring it.
Robin:Sure. What else, or just start showing up to these events.
Kathi:Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, make a friend, I'm reading from the collection, but I'm also reading new work as well.
Speaker 4:It's funny because a lot of writers say this. I wrote Consider the Light three or four years ago now, and you know I started sending it out to a contest and things like that. It took me maybe nine months before it was picked up.
Robin:It's good to know, and then they said hey, we want your book, and then it was picked up it's good to know.
Speaker 4:And then they said hey, we want your book and then it's another year. It's a process.
Kathi:So I've written actually two more collections that I'm currently sending out Nice.
Alexis:But that's one of the things that's interesting, because welcome to the way things used to be. I mean, right now we're in instant gratification mode. These days it's sort of like, why does it take so long? Well, because it takes a while to edit. It takes a while to set things up and to publish them, and I really think that that's something that people should understand. And you know the whole bit of I can order something from Amazon and get it before I could run down to the store and buy it, which you know amazed me. The first time I did that, it was like wait a minute.
Alexis:This was an order online that got here quicker than I can get myself ready and go down to a store and buy the thing and they have it in stock, you know, and it's sort of like I think. Unfortunately we're used to that, including me We've gotten used to it.
Kathi:Yes, to your point. It's good to break that rhythm up a little bit.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and the other place just in terms of my coaching business the name of my company is People Possibilities and the website is people possibilitiescom which I understand.
Robin:There's a lot of P's in there but I wanted to name my company that. And so there you go. You like people and and I just love that, I don't know, I'm just picturing if people came to your events like, and they did want to make a friend, you're very you're a very approachable person, so you know you don't have to be afraid to introduce yourself to Kathy. She'd love to meet you, and you know I mean just an instant friend.
Robin:It's, it's always nice when you're going to an event to have a pal, or if you do have the courage, you know, to go along that you, you meet someone. Absolutely. Yeah, I would encourage that, all right. Well, any last thoughts, any final?
Alexis:questions. Oh, I have tons of questions, but nothing to do with anything we're talking about, so it doesn't really matter. I laugh because I think when we first started this, I'm like I need to ask everybody. So, in your opinion, what's the meaning of life?
Robin:Still working that out. She's writing her own personal test case.
Kathi:I do want to say thank you both very much for this opportunity and.
Kathi:I love that I can share with you all and that you can share with your folks, and whatever I mean, the message gets out about writing and about being who you are and enjoying your life and finding the beauty around you I thought that summarizes a little bit of what we talked about, but absolutely ways to express yourself yeah, you're always welcome back, because 22 sides wants to talk about expression and and alexis does have a lot of questions and it leads to what we call like different sides of the complexity of the conversation.
Robin:Right, so it might be. You know a little bit on this, it might be a whole different thing, but uh, we're just really glad to have you.
Alexis:Thank you for everything that you're doing yes okay, and so I'll do my clothing, and that is. If you have any questions about the podcast, please send it it to us. We have a talk back on our links and the link you can go to 22sidescom and right now it's saying that it's not secure. It really is, because it sends you to the secure site. I get to fix that in the next day or so, so it should be fine soon. But do that, and we'd just love it if someone wanted to sponsor us and give us a little bit of money to help pay for some of it, and there's a link to do that. So you know, go take it, and I want to go ahead. Go take a look at our podcast.
Robin:We have what 10 of them out there, 12 now. It's growing, it's growing. And if you do want to subscribe and support the podcast, the poet we were talking about through this, chris, was actually the first supporter of the podcast. So it's just artists, do believe in supporting other artists. It's a really neat community. Even if you're not an artist, just go be in the flow of it.
Alexis:Yeah, and so have a great day. We enjoyed having you.
Robin:Yeah, keep taking care. Thank you so much, we enjoyed having you, yeah keep taking care.
Alexis:Thank you so much. Bye and bye. I'll see if I can find the right button.
