22 Sides
22 Sides is a podcast that will let you get to know some fascinating people and keep up with many things that are happening in and around the Houston area.
22 Sides
Hunter's Heart
Ever wondered what it really takes to put food on your table? Not the grocery store experience, but the raw, primal connection to actually harvesting what you eat?
Two experienced hunters take us deep into the world of hunting - from exotic game ranches in Texas to practical deer hunting for family sustenance. They explore hunting the eland (Africa's largest antelope) on a 10,000-acre ranch, sharing both the technical challenges and the substantial investment required ($15,000+) for such pursuits. But this conversation goes far beyond logistics.
The dialogue reveals hunting as a multifaceted experience: disconnecting from technology in remote natural settings, forming deeper bonds with family members, and experiencing the unique satisfaction that comes from providing your own food. "It's like this is mine, I did this, I went out and got it myself," one hunter explains, capturing that sense of accomplishment that no grocery store purchase can replicate.
Ethical considerations stand front and center throughout. Both speakers emphasize only hunting what they'll eat, using appropriate firearms to ensure clean kills, and respecting the natural role of predator species. There's a thoughtful distinction made between hunting for food versus trophy hunting, with preferences clearly stated for the former.
Whether you're a seasoned hunter, curious about where your food comes from, or simply interested in understanding different perspectives on our relationship with animals and nature, this conversation offers authentic insights into a practice as old as humanity itself. The primal satisfaction of providing your own food creates a connection that modern convenience simply can't replicate.
We hope you will listen often.
For more information, visit our website 22sides.com
we've had this conversation me and Alexis have had this conversation before and we find that I think everyone should spend time on a farm or a ranch to get a very clear understanding of where your food comes from, what it takes what it compromises up. Learn the hard lesson of we don't make friends with our food, because you will A pet's not a farm animal.
Amber:Right, right, and so I think it provided an invaluable lesson. We both grew up hunting, understanding what that means. It's not what everybody, I know, it's not for everybody. Hunting is not hunting channels, but you know what does hunting provide for?
Robin:you. Why do you do it? It's not like you have to do it these days.
Amber:I like food, you like food. And if I was?
Alexis:to be honest it taps into.
Amber:I get to spend time with my dad and we don't argue and it's fun and he gets to show me things and we get to do something together. That is out of context of just to do something together. That is out of context of just in your out in the middle of nowhere.
Amber:My phone didn't work, like I was talking with you, like periodically, and I'm like this might go through, I don't know and there's no internet, it's just you in nature and it's wonderful and you're there's no phone ringing in the background. There's no phone ringing in the lawnmower blower thing that's outside, or, and it's a certain, nature you know like some people go to the ocean, some people go camping.
Robin:But this is like on a distinguished deer hunting space, right?
Amber:Yes, the one ranch that there's four sections of this ranch and it was over 10,000 acres is the section we were on Looking for the animal that we were trying to find.
Robin:In Texas, in Texas, down in South Texas, what?
Amber:animal. It was called an eland it e-l-a-n-d. They're from africa yep and they do very well in texas. Most exotic animals do incredibly well in texas, except for some of them because they don't have enough hair and when they we do have those random freeze time, they don't do well. They don't have enough fat around their livers.
Robin:What?
Amber:kind of animal is this? It is the world's largest antelope. Oh neat they're about the size of a bull. Whoa, they're a big animal. That's sizable.
Alexis:Yeah, and they can win Whoa and they will win.
Amber:They will absolutely win Both male and female have the horns Okay and they spiral up, and if one was standing in this room right now, I know y'all can. They're tall or the horns are tall, both. Oh, I see so a field fence is roughly to roughly five feet tall, maybe a little bit less. If you have double high field fence, which is most people do when they're doing game ranches, that's 10 to 13 feet tall. They can scale it.
Robin:Oh, wow, wow, they're jumpers, they're, they have no and it won't be hard. So the regular five foot they almost like they. They like you, would step over a baby gate this sounds a little beautiful and so it's pretty neat. You know, just your dad, my, dad and a family friend.
Amber:Okay, um, and then you had a guy, family friend, sizable shorter than my dad, but he doesn't grow a man.
Robin:Well, I mean it just sounds like if you were actually to hunt and kill these things, then you would probably have to bring them back right, there's a jeep, for that's how to winch well I was going to say in texas, you don't have to worry about that they take care.
Amber:Yeah, I mean basically, you do it for somebody comes out and does it for you. Well, no, they're with us like we're miles away from camp, right, so we're. We have a like old school jeep that you would go around okay so yeah, and they built the they had to weld some stuff racks in so that they can pick up and take these animals back.
Amber:So you field dress it, which means you take all the insides out, sure, and nature takes care of that after you leave, okay. And then when you get back to camp sometimes I know you've learned how to do all this on your own where you have to skin, quarter all of it out, field dress it out yourself and it depends on where you are and what you're doing, like in Illinois, we generally would not.
Alexis:We would field dress it, we'd remove any scent, glands and that sort of stuff and everything else would stay on until we had actually signed it in and then after that you have a choice of either doing the butchering yourself or take it to somebody to butcher it.
Amber:And for this type of animal that we're talking about how much food would be provided I could eat on it easily for a year, probably more.
Robin:Just you.
Amber:Two people Two people, a family, could eat on it conservatively because it's red meat. I mean it's lean red meat. You can call it red meat. It's red, but I don't know. It tastes like a deer and a cow had a baby in the best way, so you get the benefits of it being a lean meat like venison, but cow had a baby in the best way. So you get the benefits of it being a lean meat like venison, but you don't get that game taste that you would get with venison.
Alexis:I don't mind that taste, but you and you have to cook it slow and properly.
Robin:Okay, and just so we're getting the full picture of this. Yeah, so let's say roughly, how much do your tools cost?
Amber:Like guns, clothes, oh God Okay.
Robin:This is where it gets into the money, the animal itself like let's, let's say not necessarily you no, say not you like, because I know you like your toys and whatnot. Yeah, but like let's go.
Amber:No, I'll just the gun itself. Yeah, let's go bare minimum.
Robin:So like, like, like if somebody were to take on this situation, but just like starter level, not like to go deer hunting or go hunting for this type of animal this type of okay oh, you're looking easily 10 grand or better okay, it's gonna be higher.
Amber:Basically, you're paying for the animal yes, the animal itself was around eight.
Robin:Okay, nine so you have your tools and the animal fee and the gun without the scope that we had because, you have the furniture.
Amber:That goes on it right, I might as well have said 15 to 20, probably conservatively okay, um, okay.
Robin:So you have some tools that you have to pay for, and then you have to pay for the animal so it can go home with you. You have the tip fee for the guide if they do a good job for the guy, yeah, so it's usually 10 of the hunt I'm sorry, the animal is 6500, so and then how long are you out there?
Amber:I was out there for three days okay, and did you catch an animal?
Robin:no, okay, okay, so, so, so. So you have your tools, yeah, and you don't have the uh promise that you're coming home with an animal right so you have your tools and your stay fee and your tip. Yeah, so, but if you, minimum in this particular hunt.
Amber:If you don't put the animal on the ground and take, uh, you don't pay for the animal, but you still pay the tip fee, so which is 10 of the animal, and then you pay your daily rate of staying at the camp and that's uh. Breakfast, lunch and dinner provided for you, and I had so many good tortillas, it was like some, oh so good um, okay, so you're like going to a hunting spa.
Robin:It's not a spa it is definitely not a spa.
Amber:There was something living in my cabin with me.
Robin:I specifically said A hunting retreat. Yes, okay, that's king. I specifically was like kind of fucking with you.
Amber:Okay, we might have had a fire pit, so you're out there for three days.
Alexis:I'm in this bumpy ass Jeep, sure, you know, and the guy oh, no, that's called massage.
Robin:Yeah, yeah, massage massaged. Yeah, yeah, you have the compression, okay to put compression, it built into the seat in the ground and then.
Amber:So it's not like you're getting your nails done, but you're still getting the massage, okay and we always saw was females and their babies, no boyfriends okay, and animals, we're talking yeah, elan, female, elan, female and male and female or young males that were not shooters, were not doing that, and then you had babies, so you have standards on who you're trying to hunt.
Robin:You're not just willy nilly shooting out there.
Alexis:All of these animals have been brought in as exotic animals. These aren't like native to Texas and they really don't want them out. No, they don't.
Amber:Because stuff like oryx, for example, which they have on, they have on this ranch and they are. They proliferate in Texas to the point where if you don't cull them it's an actual problem, like they're going to overtake the natural flora and fauna of the area because they do that well here.
Robin:Okay, so certain animals are brought in, pinned, and then they overpopulate.
Amber:They accidentally get out, and then they get out, and then they get out and then that's axis. Deer are a good example of.
Alexis:Anyway, when you say pin, these are pinned on like 10 000 acres. So right.
Amber:So it's not like they have a little tiny pin there you might not know for months.
Robin:That's substantial in texas, but texas is big texas. This is in texas.
Amber:But those animals I don't, they do well and those actually. Oryx actually stands up to the cold a lot better than a lot of the exotic species, but they do well here and they provide a good amount of meat, sure. So this particular hunt no, the gun I was going with was substantial enough to put down the animal with one go.
Robin:You can name names or brands or whatever.
Amber:here you want, it's a .340 Weatherby Magnum Okay for people interested in toys which is fairly large with a nice loophole, scope 1 by 24 scope. I didn't have any problems seeing anything I wanted to see. There's a good chance that you're going to be. I got it within 40 yards of one little herd, which was not normal we just happened to have. The wind was gusting at around 40 to 50.
Amber:So they didn't hear us very well, didn't smell anything, didn't smell a damn thing, because normally if they see you gone, yeah, and so they, we saw, we saw, we got in on them. But the I had, I was so mad I had one, it was a decent bull in my sights and I'm like got it and I'm watching it and you can't like deer, you shoot like right behind the front shoulder, right here is where the little heart is. They're down, they're dead before they hit the ground, usually, hopefully. And so these animals you can't do that because they're antelope and they're shaped a little different. The heart is actually down and forward behind their shoulders, so their shoulder and shoulder blade actually acts as a barrier between that and it's kind of down in the breast cage here. So you have to actually be able to punch through that part of the shoulder to get to the vital organs that you're needing to. So that's where the bigger rifles come in. You don't want to be shooting it with like a 270 or something like that. It won't do it.
Robin:That's fine for deer even a 308 it's fine for deer and we're not trying to headshot it because I'm taking that home so at this, are you doing it for fun or for food, or are you doing it for both?
Amber:If I would say it wasn't fun, I'd be lying. Okay, you get to tap into a part of your brain, that your little lizard brain that you have, that you now have to be quiet, you have to shoot properly. You have to put that animal down. I don't like anything suffering at all, period, the end. So I put extra pressure on myself to actually make the good shot. So that's an extra little adrenaline rush.
Amber:And it's weird because you and I I determined this from this conversation and I think I already knew it delayed adrenaline response. I'm calm as shit, but when I get that calm, I know what's coming. And then you have the buck fever thing I'll explain that in a minute, which still happens. If that doesn't happen to you, when you go hunting, you just should stop and so that means you've got other issues. But anyway, so I'm calm and I'm watching it and I had it in my sights and I'm on that shoulder, but he's still walking and the guide, because they want to make sure you put down the animal and some people that go out on these paid hunts are not so great right, I bet I bet, and he's like no, no, I was like I got it.
Amber:He's like no, no, no, I was like I got it. And he's like no, no. And then he walks behind some females, and that was that. I couldn't get all shot off. So right, we go back to the truck or the jeep, and so, no, this equaled out to me no elin's, no elands going home. Gotcha this trip. And there was only one bull on quota for the whole ranch, that was mine, uh-huh, and which means they don't let you just go out. People just go out there and shoot all their animals up. They go out and do a survey, usually by helicopter, oh, and count the animals that they have on the ranch.
Alexis:Uh-huh, because how are, if you do?
Amber:not find a herd of 100 plus animals that are 8 feet tall and 1,300 pounds? Wow, we drove 170 miles in two and a half days. How?
Alexis:to phrase it, it's because they're used to avoiding people finding them.
Amber:Like they walk into the mesquite and the. I forgot the name of the grass. They're just. You saw them one second ago and now they're gone.
Robin:Like it's not easy. And how long have you been hunting like this since? I was a kid, and okay, so, and how long was your dad doing it? Was he doing it?
Amber:since he was a kid.
Robin:Since he was a kid okay, and then is this the food that you guys mainly eat off of, or do you eat off other food because we also have other? Yeah, we raise cattle.
Amber:So we have that and then, um, a lot of our meat in our freezer is wild game and it puts a whole spot. So you're on this animal and you're like get this. You're focused in on it and you're trying to do the right. I get it, it's mine. I stalked in on you. I've been hunting you for days. You're mine now and sometimes it's not that long.
Robin:You go deer hunting sometimes and it's like we're walking outside you know when you're out there you still get the same, like for a few days. How many hours are you out there for?
Amber:all day.
Robin:Okay.
Amber:Like all day. Okay, and it's not fun. Sure, you pee in the woods and watch out for the mesquite briars because they'll poke you in the ass. It's not pleasant, and so you, when, if so, getting on an animal, so I actually you get the kill and you take care of it all and you get home and that first meal with it. It's like this is mine, I did this, I went out and got it myself, and so it's again. It's like knowing what it feels like to get punched in the face. This is how I'm gonna react. This is now me owning part of my thing, and it satisfies a certain part of your brain and again, it's not for everybody what part of the brain is that for you?
Amber:is it that that you had it killed? Yeah, well, I can take care of myself.
Robin:Yeah, you manage that all for yourself, from like finding it to the plate.
Amber:Yeah, and then same thing. When you go fishing to a lesser degree, it's exciting. I love fishing.
Robin:Because I think you go. Do you go deep sea fishing? Yeah, I do, I've seen it on boats.
Amber:It's fun and so, but it takes time. You've got to find the fish. You've got to get the fish in the boat without the sharks eating it, if you're offshore, or the dolphins, and then you have to take it home. You have to flay it out, you have to, and then the whole process from going out getting it and bringing it back.
Robin:Minimum, how much does that cost?
Amber:Depends on who you and what you're going out for.
Robin:But minimum you can get on a boat out of galveston at the jetty for 50 bucks. They don't like me, yeah, yeah, they don't like the party boats.
Amber:I don't like being on the party boats either. I don't either so what they don't like me is that you said yeah, okay, because you're gonna do the fun stuff and they don't like that. You're not.
Alexis:Well, you know they were finning sharks oh, I don't like that, you're not funny. Well, no, they were finning sharks. Oh, I don't like that. And being that at that time I was on NOAA advisory board, oh, I asked them to stop. They didn't, and I made a phone call and then, all of a sudden, there were a couple NOAA boats showed up.
Amber:Yeah.
Robin:We don't fin the sharks. What is this? I don't know what that is.
Alexis:They catch a little shark cut the fins off and so the shark goes. Shark dies, gets eaten by other sharks oh why? Because they're eating the bait or they can. They can sell the fins and then they can sell the fins
Robin:too, and it keeps more it is very illegal for medicine okay, it's a whole thing it's a whole thing they go to asia. Okay, yeah, wow well so it sounds like you two are very ethical when it comes to securing animals for food.
Alexis:Yeah, yeah, I haven't gone hunting in quite a while, but I never hunted unless I was going to eat it number one. And you know, I know some people are like, oh, I just just want the trophy. You know I want to keep the head and want the trophy, and it's like that doesn't work. That way You're going to have to skin it out and take the meat and use the meat, or I think it's a really bad thing.
Robin:And being able to go and do this for yourself has you know this is really great. This is not something I would necessarily do if we bring it all the way back to the zombie apocalypse. Like, I'm not your friend for this. And I honestly have been asked to do plenty of things with Amber, but none of these things and I don't know. I kind of figured you wouldn't want to. I mean, I don't know why I wasn't on the list, but you know.
Alexis:I do. Okay, you know I don't know, but I'm not going to talk about the fact that there are rattlesnakes.
Amber:Oh, I have a picture I won't show you.
Robin:No, I'll show you People who don't have a concept for this and things. I just wonder, since I'm not going to do this, probably no, you aren't. It sounds like, after going through all those steps and money and endurance and learning the skill to do it, when you get back to that plate, it has you be a more complete person.
Alexis:Is that right?
Robin:Than if you had just gone to the grocery store and let them do it like. Did you get any value personally? Out of that well, yeah, well for me. No, I'm trying to figure out the right way. Let's think it all the way through for me this is going trophy slash.
Alexis:Exotic hunting is not something that you can justify by having food to eat. Right, because it's too expensive. Yeah, you could go buy it cheaper, oh, absolutely. But what it is for me is, if you've done that and I mean I have not been hunting for quite a while because I've just not felt the need for it but the fact that I could go out and take a deer anytime I wanted to, or a bear or whatever, and we owned a lot of land, so we maybe didn't hunt exactly in season what does bear taste like?
Alexis:it's tough and you have to cook it forever and it makes really good jerky okay is it darker what the? Color? Uh it's, it's very dark, but it also is fatty, which is why the jerky works and, and you know, I mean I don't like I never liked taking bear because, well, all they're doing is cleaning up our mess usually, yeah, but what? What happens is, most of the like, the stuff that's not like a deer.
Alexis:I mean deer, my opinion, were basically designed to be food yeah and and you know, don't mind that quail, don't mind quail, you know migratory, you know geese, that sort of stuff ducks. But but you know, like when you get to bear or you get to something like that and or a cougar or something along those lines, it's like no, that's not okay. But what happens is people go out, they see one and they shoot it with their 22 rifle, which does nothing but cause it to flinch, and then gets infected, and then they get to the point where they can't actually hunt for the stuff they hunt for.
Alexis:So they start hunting for cattle and people yeah because you know food's food and you know and, and at that point, yeah, you get, you know hunt and sort of take them out. Yeah, which means you don't take a .22, except some people do, and you're like, wait, that's not going to do it. And the people who say, oh well, I got a big gun, take a .30-30. And it's like that's just going to piss him off.
Amber:It's just going to make them and now you're in trouble because this big angry predator is now coming after you.
Alexis:Exactly, and they'll turn and just start coming your way and they don't care because you're trying to kill them, so they're going to pay it back.
Amber:Fair, somebody shoots me and don't kill me. I'm coming after you, angry. You should have shot me.
Alexis:I always got lots of shit when I would take my .30-06. And it's like I got to be able't knock him down. No, you know, if we really get into this, you're going to be really glad. I have a .30-06.
Amber:Yeah, and if you could do something bigger, maybe that would be good too. It depends on what you're shooting. I mean grizzly and black bear, either way something that big and angry.
Alexis:Black bear are pretty small. Actually At least in Illinois they were and you know a .30-06 handled them with a heavy load Okay, and you know I had a .45-50, but I could just fire like two shots and then I was done for the day.
Amber:Done for the day. I got to fire a .470 Nitro Express, not that one. I'll show you the video later. Yeah, that was a big boom.
Alexis:I thought I wanted to bear .50 caliber until I fired one. Yeah, and I really loved, was cool once one time and I'm like, oh my gosh yeah, it does not. It's like oh, that was cool we were shooting at a target two and a half miles away and it was just, it was level, you didn't have to adjust for it. Nice, you know but anyway, nice.
Alexis:But yeah, one time you're like I'm good but I think you know one of the things. As I said, this isn't how you go stock your pantry now you know, if you were in illinois, where there's lots of deer and it's around where you are, then yeah, you can go out and get a deer so you can have meat for the next two or three months we do.
Amber:What's it my dad will do like when we were younger, we didn't have a lot of money, so we did. He would get 60. You get six tags a year here, so at least at the time I don't know what it is.
Alexis:Now I forgot that's six animals, six animals and so he would get the six deers and that's what we would be eating on from, yeah, and and the other thing is, when you're doing that, you don't go for the ones that are really big and have a super big antler rack, because they're tough they've been around longer the same thing with cows, just like.
Robin:Don't pick a fight with the older man that's made it through the world full circle.
Alexis:When it comes time to eat them, you're gonna have to cook them forever cook forever, or they just grind everything down to hamburger meat, so it doesn't matter, and even in the hamburger meat it's yeah, it's different, not good it's different yeah um yeah, the trophy hunting I'm I know people who do it.
Amber:I'm like if that's you, I don't like it. I don't. If I shoot a bear cougar because I'm in Africa, whatever, it better be chasing me, because that's the only point I see to it. Now, there is an exception to this rule For me. For me, maybe, not you.
Robin:For me, you're making your own drumming rules.
Amber:If I I want to go hunting in Africa, but it's very specific. I want to a little bit of a child that can eat me Like that. I like the taste of alligator here too, like I would go alligator hunting because I like the taste of it, but it's also a little bit more dangerous, because that thing, if I don't do it right, is a problem. Same thing with bears If you don't do this right, this is now a problem, and so it's a little bit more of a risk. Yeah.
Alexis:I used to know people in Illinois who would go bear hunting and their whole strategy was usually to climb a tree and hunt the bear from the tree, and usually it was a little tiny tree and I'd just be like no, no, no, no, no, not the right thing A bears climb amazingly well. They don't even slow down, they just keep running and grabbing the tree and going up.
Robin:And shooting down at something is just not what you want to do. This is before a bunch of bear movies and bear jokes and. National Geographic, those hunting channels.
Amber:they will show people in the tree blinds.
Robin:They still climb up there and they're like go away bear, go away bear, because either they're just sitting there with a bow.
Amber:Good luck knocking one again.
Alexis:But you can take down a bear with a bow.
Amber:Easily. Yes, you can but down and, as it's running up the tree at you and the problem is going down.
Alexis:You only have their head to shoot, and where you need to hit a bear is right in here.
Amber:Wow, you hit it in the head. It might glance what certain bullets will also bounce off their skull, cause they're that.
Alexis:And that just pisses them off.
Amber:Well, so you're learning all kinds of stuff today about that.
Alexis:When I was growing up, in the kitchen of one of our hunting cabins there was this little plaque that hung there from my earliest memories until I left for college. It read Behold the hunter. They riseth up early in the morning and disturbeth the whole household. Mighty are their preparations. They goeth forth full of hope, returning when the day is far spent, smelling of strong drink. And the truth is not in them.
Robin:We'll have you back, for sure. Oh yeah, so thanks for coming in and everybody who's listening. Enjoy what you learned and skip the rest, and if you have anything else that we should talk about or anyone else that we should talk to, let us know. Yeah.
Amber:Go find a friend. Have them punch you in the face. Bye.
Robin:Bye for now.
Alexis:We'll be back Good, better or worse.
Robin:Well, that is two o'clock.
Alexis:Thank, you so?
Robin:much yes, really, yes, yes, really, yes, yes.
Alexis:Was that O like well, that was quick, yeah. Or was that O like it's only two? Yeah, yeah, that was quick.
Amber:How was your experience?
Robin:No, it was great, yeah, okay, wonderful, yeah, yeah, thank you.
